LDS Podcast "Latter-Day Lights" - Inspirational LDS Stories

Modern Miracles from the Medical World: Dr. Mark Saunders' Story - Latter-Day Lights

• Scott Brandley and Emily Hemmert

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When life feels uncertain and stakes are high on the operating table, how do we learn to trust in the Lord’s plan?

On this week’s episode of Latter-Day Lights, Scott and Emily sit down with Dr. Mark T. Saunders, a semi-retired OB/GYN whose quiet, faithful listening opened the door to dozens of sacred and miraculous stories. While conducting his routinely in-home medical visits, Mark found that his patients—often without prompting—felt compelled to share their deeply personal experiences of divine intervention, healing, and guidance from the Holy Ghost.

From a young student almost facing the loss of his leg, to near-death experiences, and unmistakable moments of revelation, Mark reflects on how these encounters strengthened his testimony that God will always a God of miracles no matter the circumstances. This conversation explores the difference between trusting in the wisdom of the world, and learning to rely fully on personal revelation, spiritual sensitivity, and the intentional direction of the Spirit.

Rooted in scripture, lived experience, and divine inspiration, this episode is an invitation to slow down, listen more closely, and rediscover what it means to place unwavering trust in the Lord—even when the path forward feels like it's coming to an end.

*** Please SHARE Dr. Saunders' story and help us spread hope and light to others. ***

To WATCH this episode on YouTube, visit: https://youtu.be/bihxYdh6GzM

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To READ Dr. Saunders' book, "Learning to Trust in The Lord," visit: https://a.co/d/0OLMSuK

To READ Scott’s new book “Faith to Stay” for free, visit: https://www.faithtostay.com/

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Also, if you have a faith-promoting or inspiring story, or know someone who does, please let us know by going to https://www.latterdaylights.com and reaching out to us.

Scott Brandley:

Hey there, as a Latter-Day Lights listener, I want to give you a very special gift today. My brand new book, Faith to Stay. This book is filled with inspiring stories, powerful discoveries, and even fresh insights to help strengthen your faith during the storms of life. So, if you're looking to be inspired, uplifted, and spiritually recharged, just visit faith2.com. Now, let's get back to the show. Hey everyone, I'm Scott Brandley.

Emily Hemmert:

And I'm Emily Hemmert. Every member of the church has a story to share, one that can instill faith, invite growth, and inspire others.

Scott Brandley:

On today's episode, one man shares stories from people who have experienced miracles in their lives as they learn to trust in the Lord. Welcome to Latter Day Lights. We're so glad you're here with us today. We're really excited to introduce to you Dr. Mark T. Saunders to the show. Welcome, Mark. How are you, Scott? Thank you for having me. Doing great. Yeah, you bet. So um, yeah, we're excited to have you. Thanks for being on the show. Um, why don't you kind of kick things off and tell us a little bit about yourself?

Dr. Mark Saunders:

Sure. Thank you for the opportunity to do so. Uh, my name is Dr. Mark T. Saunders, MD, uh, and I'm a semi-retired OBGYN. Practice obstetrics and gynecology for about 25 years. I've got uh a beautiful, lovely wife of 43 years, six children, and 10 grandchildren. And uh for many years I did obstetrics and gynecology. Then a few years ago, uh something occurred that uh required me to kind of take a different detour in my life a little bit. And I started working for a company and started doing some home Medicaid and Medicare examinations. And uh in the process of doing that, I go into people's homes and talk to them across their kitchen tables and in the front room and ask them some very personal questions, mostly medically related. But every once in a while, uh when I got to a medical question, sometimes they'd go kind of quiet and they'd say, Hey, Doc, do you have a few extra minutes? And when they'd say that on a very frequent occasion, I knew that uh they were going to tell me something. And so I learned to be, as that happened more and more frequently, I learned to be quiet and just listen to what they had to tell me. And uh over the course of time, it didn't happen once or twice, but dozens and dozens of times, people would start opening up to me and tell me some of their most sacred personal life experiences. And at first I wasn't sure exactly why this was occurring, other than they had confidence and trust in me, I suppose. And um, they knew that I was there to listen and to help them. But as time went on, I started writing these stories in my journal when I came home at night. I'd say to my wife, Sheila, hey, you wouldn't believe what I heard today. And I'd tell her the stories and I'd write them down in my journal. And uh time went on, I got quite a few of them. And one morning I was taking a shower and I thought, why is the Lord putting all these people in my path on an almost daily basis? You know, I always pray, you know, that I can be put in somebody's path to help them, and then maybe they in turn can help me. That's something I kind of go out and ask for when I'm praying. And so um, as these started happening, I thought, you know what, all these stories ought to be shared because some of them are truly miraculous, uh, a lot of them. And I thought, you know, why don't I compile some of these stories together? And that's how learning to trust in the Lord uh came about. And uh it was a work of about three different uh years of stories that I accumulated over time. One thing that makes my book somewhat unique, I didn't go out and do any research. I didn't go ask people, hey, tell me about your near-death experiences or anything of that nature. All these were spontaneous stories that people felt compelled to tell me. I didn't ask anything other than I might have asked them a health question regarding, you know, a heart attack that occurred sometime in the past. And next thing you know, they'd be telling me about something that happened with a heart attack. That's one of the stories maybe I'll tell you about. But um, so I don't know why people had confidence in telling me these things. Sometimes they'd say, you know what? I haven't told this to hardy anybody, but I feel like I need to tell this to you, Doc. And so I'd be quiet, I'd listen, and then I'd just try to remember what they told me, and then write these stories down as I return home. So uh one of the ones that I remember quite well, and this is well documented at the BYU archives, so it's a historical record that is true. Um his patient's name is uh this person's name is Arlen, his real name is Arlen Cooney. I don't mind saying that because he allowed me to share that, his name in my book. Most of the other people I just put in their first names because I don't want people to know who they really are. But he uh has a story that's well documented at BYU. And so Arlen, at the time that he told me this story at his kitchen table at his uh modest home in Orim, Utah, uh I asked him a question about his past medical history, and uh he got kind of quiet. And he said, you know, I don't usually tell the story because it's a very sacred story, but I want to tell it to you because I feel like I need to tell it to you. I said, Okay. So Arnim told me that uh when he was about 22 years old, uh he was going to BYU and he developed a growth on his thigh and didn't know what it really was, but he went to a doctor by the name of Dr. Nephi Kazarian. So it tells you obviously he's probably a member of the church. Yeah, he was a very well, very no, very well known orthopedic surgeon at the time in provo area, and uh they took a look at his uh his leg and did some x-rays, and you know, Dr. Kazarian came back and said, Arlen, you have a big tumor on your leg, on his thigh. And uh Arnan's 96 years old at the time, he's telling me this, okay? So he's still alive, but he's getting pretty up there. All right. Anyway, uh he said, uh, we're gonna have to take off your right leg. Called a disarticulation. So from the from the right hip socket down, they were gonna take off Arnold's leg. Well, at the time, this is a long time ago that this happened. He was going to BYU and they had a special fast for Arlen, and uh somebody arranged for him to speak with get this, Elder Spencer W. Kimball of the Corum of the Bone Apostles. So that tells you how long ago this happened. But uh they arranged a time where Arlen could go talk with uh Elder Kimball, and he went down and did so, and he told them the situation that hey, they're gonna have to take off my leg because I got this bone growth, this bone tumor on my right, my right thigh. And uh Elder Kimball gave him a blessing, a priesthood blessing. And in that blessing, he said, Arlen, no matter what, stay positive. If a negative thought comes into your brain, immediately cast it out. He says, if you have any thoughts at all that this isn't gonna work out, it's not gonna work out. You gotta stay positive 100% of the time. And Arlan said, Okay. And so he blessed him that everything would be okay. Well, despite that, he went back to Provo and Dr. Kazarian continued to say, We got to take off your leg. And so the day came that they were gonna take off his his right leg and disarticulate his leg. Well, he's there in the hospital, in the old Provo hospital, and the nurses and doctors are starting to gather. Dr. Kazarian is not quite there yet, but Dr. Kazarian finally comes in, walks in the room with all these other people around Arlen's bed, and Arlen says, Hey, Doc, can I talk to you in private for a moment? And uh Dr. Kazarian said, Sure. So Arlen gets out of his bed, and they two together walk down the hall of the old Provo hospital. As they're looking for a place to go in and find an empty room so they can sit down and talk for a minute or two. They cannot find an empty room in the hospital. So this very well-known orthopaedic surgeon finds a janitorial closet, opens the door, turns on the light, and they both go in together in a janitorial closet with brooms and boxes and cleaning equipment, etc. And Arlen tells him kind of of the blessing that that happened with with President Kimball, and uh he says, you know, is there any way we can just not take off my leg? And uh he asks him to pray. So, believe it or not, Dr. Kazarian kneels down and prays in this janitorial closet. Arlen couldn't kneel because of his tumor, so he's sitting on some cardboard boxes. He prays. When he gets done praying, they are both just in tears. And Dr. Kazarian looks at Arlen and says, Arlen, there's no medical reason whatsoever why I shouldn't take off your leg today. All the studies, everything point that this is a very bad osteosarcoma, which is a bone cancer, and we need to take off your leg. But I still believe in miracles, so we're not gonna take off your leg today. So they cancel the surgery, but Dr. Kazarian says, Hey, I just can't leave you. I've got to follow up with you. So they arrange to go in, so Arna goes in every month to the clinic to take another x-ray. This is long before MRIs and things of that nature. So, uh, anyway, every month they go in to take an x-ray, and the osteosarcoma, in case you don't know, is a very aggressive bone cancer. It uh it's a bad, bad actor. But guess what? Every single month the tumor shrinks and eventually goes away, and the residents and the doctors just cannot believe it. When he got done with this story, and when I give it right now, the spirit is very strong because it's a true story. Arlen, after all these years, more than 60 years had passed, and when he told me this across his kitchen table, he was streaming in tears, and all I could say is the Lord has been so good to me, the Lord has been so good to me, and I'm just sitting there like, you know, holy moly. And uh so I came home and wrote down that story, and there's many others like it, but the thing that when when when people read my book, I want one thing to happen in particular, I want them to feel the Holy Ghost. When I pick up my own book, of course I know what the stories are, but I literally cannot go a page or two without feeling the spirit. And my goal is that people will learn to feel the spirit, because as we follow the Holy Ghost, that's the key to following the Lord. One of my favorite quotes comes from a gentleman that was the uh chairman of the Department of Religious Instruction at Brigham Young University for four decades, 40 years. And uh um Chauncey C. Riddle, sorry, I had to think about that for just a second, get his name. Chauncey C. Riddle, in his book called Think Independently, said this on page 10 at the top, it says, quote, All who are true saints take their instructions directly from the head of the church, who is Jesus Christ Himself, as He speaks to each worthy member through the gift of the Holy Ghost. So I there's two important factors that I relate on the back of my book cover that I emphasize throughout the book. One is I I quote 2 Nephi 3, uh 32, 3, sorry, that says, Wherefore I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ, for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what you should do. And then, so it's the Holy Ghost, and then secondly, as we read scriptures and so forth, that's how we obtain the Holy Ghost. Okay. And then I uh I also quoted Elder Ukdorf, who said this the Holy Ghost is a certain and safe guide to assist all mortals who seek God as they navigate the often troubling waters of confusion and contradiction. So, really, my book's really about the Holy Ghost. Yes, it talks about these stories and these true stories that occurred in people's lives, but it's really about living worthy so that we ourselves can be in tune with the Holy Ghost so that we can feel prompted to do what we need to do in our own personal lives.

Scott Brandley:

As you were going and meeting with these people and they're just telling you these stories, like, did you feel God's hand like in it as you were having this these experiences?

Dr. Mark Saunders:

That is a wonderful question, and the answer is a profound yes. As I said, I would pray on a regular basis that people would come into my path whom I could help, and whom in particular they might be able to help me as well. Another story comes from uh another person, I won't use his real name, but he was the head of the University of Utah healthcare system, the entire system, not just the hospital, but all the hospitals, all the University of Healthcare system. I'm gonna use his name as Tim, that's not his real name. But I got to his house in Bountiful, Utah, and I was there about an hour early. I thought, oh my heavens, what am I gonna do for an extra, you know, nearly an hour of my time? Well, the Lord knew what I was there early for. As I went in to talk to Tim, uh I asked him a simple question. We're doing the interview, just like I always do, just regular medical questions, past medical history. We come to the cardiac evaluation and I ask him about his heart. He gets quiet. And he said, uh, you know, he told me that he had a five-vessel coronary artery bypass graft. But he says, you know, do you have a few extra minutes? Well, of course, the Lord had arranged that I had a few extra minutes. So uh he starts telling me this story. He has a cabin up in Hebgen Lake, Montana, which is near West Yellowstone. And he and his family and wife love to go there. But it's uh one summer day where, you know, it's kind of late, I think, in the in the more like fall. But anyway, he and his wife are out on a boat at Hebgen Lake fishing, and there's no one else in the cabin. Usually there's, you know, a child or some grandkids or somebody else that's around, but this time it was just the two of them up at their cabin, and they were fishing, and he started having some really bad chest pain. And he'd been around, you know, as a hospital administrator for years. He knew that chest pain wasn't a good thing. So he told his wife, he says, Hey, I think I'm having a heart attack. We need to get off this lake. ASAP, you need to get me to a hospital. So they get off the lake and get their boat put away, and he she starts driving to the hospital. Well, it's starting to get dark. It's later in the afternoon toward the evening. It starts to get dark, and I think the nearest hospital he said was uh Rexby, Idaho. And uh or Rexburg, I can't remember exactly. Rexburg, yeah. I think it was Rexburg, Idaho. Anyway, she gets lost, and he's still having chest pain, it's getting worse and worse and worse as time goes on. So he ends up having to drive because she gets lost. They finally make it to the Rexburg hospital. The uh cardiothoracic surgeon and cardiologist assess him there, and they said, uh, Tim, you've had a heart attack. But we don't think we can really do much. We're just gonna let you be, and we're gonna give you some blood thinners, maybe, and see if we can just get you over this uh hump, but we don't think we need to do any intervention. Well, he calls up his buddies at the University of Utah. They tell he he tells them what's going on, and they said, uh, we're gonna fly you up a helicopter. So they fly up a helicopter and they bring him back down to the University of Utah, and the cardiothoracic surgeon and cardiologist do an evaluation here, gets another angiogram, and they say, You know what, Tim? We think we can help you. So, okay, great. Whatever you need to do to help me, you know, I want to live a while. Yeah. So they uh they take him back to do a surgery, they end up doing a five-vessel coronary artery bypass graft. It means you take a vein from your saphenus vein in your leg, you open up your chest, you put in five vessels. Well, they did that, and he's in the recovery room, and he's just starting to wake up from uh anesthesia and uh kind of still a little bit groggy, and the cardiothoracic surgeon comes in with a very somber look on his face, doesn't seem very happy, and with that somber look he says, Tim, I have some bad news. You're bleeding to death. One of the grass is bleeding, and if we don't go back in, you're gonna die. So he's like, Well, please, you know, I don't want to die, you know, so take me back. Um he leaves, and the nurse who's in the room with him recovery, she's not supposed to leave because she's not here's the guy that just had open heart surgery, not supposed to be left alone, but she leaves him for just a moment or two. Just as she leaves, three men dressed in white appear at his bedside. And they say, Tim, I keep on wanting to say his real name, so I apologize. Tim. The Lord has much for you still to do. It is not your time to go. You do have to go back in and have surgery, and this time we're going to assist the physicians. And you need to have your aortic valve replaced as well. But don't worry, everything's gonna turn out just fine. And Tim, while he's listening to these three men, he just said they were dressed in white, didn't give me any of the specifics. He looks out of the corner of his eye, and in the corner of the room, he sees his deceased mother dressed in a white dress. She doesn't say a word. She simply looks at him and says, doesn't say anything. She just nods her head in a yes fashion, doesn't say a word. Next moment, she's gone. The three men dressed in white are gone. They come in, they take him back, do the surgery. The surgery is successful. He continues to be the CEO of the University of Healthcare system for many years thereafter. He said, more importantly, he continued to be a temple worker in the bountiful temple. Um some of the brethren quite well that live in the area. But when he got done, I said, Tim, who have you told this story to? And he looked at me and said, My wife and you. So you the kids don't know anything about this. No, I I've never told them. I just, it's a very sacred story to me. And I says, Tim, raise your right hand. He goes, What? I says, Raise your right hand to the square. He says, What do you mean? I says, You need to write this down on paper so that your posterity knows about what happened to you. And he looked at me, he put up his right hand and said, I will. I said, before the end of the week, he said, I will. And he looked at me and said, Doc, the Lord sent you here to my house today, didn't he? And I said, Tim, he did. I needed to hear this, and your children need to know what happened to their dad, and your grandchildren need to know what happened to their grandfather. That God is still a God of miracles. I went home and wrote that down. So, you know, I don't know why, but uh even when I tell that now, I've told that story probably, you know, a couple dozen times to some people. But the spirit is strong because it's true. God knows each and every one of us. And as we rely on him, he knows what you know, we all go through trials. I just got done going through a little trial here recently myself that was kind of a big trial concerning my employment. And uh, but you know, the Lord came through and and helped me. And as we trust in him and have faith in him, that's when we can see the true miracles occur in our life. Uh, one other quick little story, just give you one off the top of my head. There's a person, I live in Pleasant Grove. I've delivered about 5,000 babies over my career, and uh one of the people I took care of was a young lady that was deaf, and her husband was deaf. But I delivered uh uh four or five of their children, and I was in the home of their parents one time here, and uh Kenneth's name is his name, and he was a bishop on like four different occasions. But we were talking about some things that that had transpired, and he told me about something that happened about two o'clock in the morning about 20 years ago, when he was a bishop. More than probably more than 20 years ago. Anyway, he said he got called in the middle of the night to go do a blessing on a very, very premature baby, little girl baby that had been born at Utah Valley Medical Center. And so all they wanted to do was have him come down and give this baby a blessing before she passed away. So he hurriedly gets dressed and drives down to Utah Valley Medical Center, which is probably about, I don't know, 10-15 minutes from where he lives, probably more like 15 minutes. He gets there, and the NICU doctor is there too, uh neonatal intensive care unit doctor, uh perineatologist. And uh he'd gone there just at the request to give this little girl, a very premature baby, uh, a name and a blessing before she passed away. But he looked at me straight in the eyes and said, as I put my fingers upon this little teeny tiny baby, premature baby's head, a girl, I felt impressed that she wasn't going to die. And I blessed her, that she would live and have children of her own. Well, he did so. When he got done, the NICU doctor scolded him. He was mad at him. He says, Why did you give this this mother unfounded hope? This baby is not going to make it. I know this baby's not gonna live. Well, guess what? You guessed it. The baby did live, she's now a beautiful woman with several children of her own. And he just looked at me and said, I did not give that blessing. The Lord used me as an instrument in his hands to give that little tiny baby a blessing, and now she's in our ward still with several children of her own. And I just, the spirit was just super, super strong that that's exactly what happened. And here's the here's a doctor saying, Oh, that dog, that baby's never gonna make it. Yeah, why did you do that? But Ken knew differently because he was in tune with the Holy Ghost and was able to bless that life and many lives thereafter. Wow.

Emily Hemmert:

I can keep on going, but uh yeah, here's going over here. I gotta go find some cleanings.

Dr. Mark Saunders:

It's interesting. Uh again, I didn't know why. I said, Well, why in the world is this happening to me? And uh, I just felt like I needed to share some of these stories. And um, what do the scriptures say? 2 Nephi 28, 31. Cursed is he that putteth his trust in the arm of man or that maketh flesh his arm. 2 Nephi 4.34 says verbatim almost exactly the same thing. How about 1 Corinthians 2.5, which says that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. How about Psalms 118 8? It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man, and I can tell you without any doubt whatsoever, that the Lord is by far the ultimate physician. And so, not just a few times, I've quite a few times, I put some of those stories in my book too, because that as we learn to trust in the Lord in every aspect of our lives, we will be blessed.

Scott Brandley:

Um, I was just thinking about what you're saying about trusting in the Lord. It seems like nowadays, especially with technology and AI and even just abundance, right? We live in a very abundant time. It's it seems there's so much noise in the world that it it sometimes becomes hard to trust in the Lord or to because it's easy to trust in man. We we have so much. What are your thoughts?

Dr. Mark Saunders:

You know, one of the things that uh one of the quotes that I I like very much is by Harold B. Lee, and he says this he says, quote, if a general authority says something that contradicts what is found in the Holy Scriptures, you may know by that same token that it is false, regardless of the position of the man who says it. Then we can know that our leaders or whoever it might be is speaking under the influence of the Holy Ghost. But if they don't speak by the under the influence of the Holy Ghost, they may or may not be saying something that is true. Joseph Smith Jr. said, quote, a prophet is a prophet only only when acting as such. He ought to know. And Joseph Smith made lots of mistakes. If you read the history of the church, which I have several times, if you read the history of the church, he'll admit on frequent occasions that he's not perfect. But what does he say? He says, There's no mistake in the revelations. And why is that? 2 Nephi 33:1 says this quote, for when a man speaketh by the power of the Holy Ghost, the power of the Holy Ghost carrieth it unto the hearts of the children of men. So when it causes our bones to quake and our bosoms to burn, and what somebody is speaking is transmitted via our spirit by God. And we know, you know what? What that person just said is true. So that's kind of what I emphasize a little bit. I keep on emphasizing in my book, in all these stories, the importance of the spirit, because it is truly by the spirit that we are following the Lord. We follow the Lord as we receive personal revelation. One of the quotes, and I can't, this one I'm gonna have to not say verbatim, but I'm just gonna uh summarize it a little bit. Um, he says, quote, I promise you, this is President Nelson. He says, I promise you, not the person sitting next to you, but you. Even though there's a lot more stories like the ones I just told you, um the whole purpose, I hope, is that when people read my book, they go, Wow, God really still is a God of miracles, He really does care about us. Miracles do happen if we simply open our eyes and are aware of them, and if we truly believe. What does Mark uh 11 uh excuse me, Mark 9, 23, 24 say? It says this. It says, If if ye can believe, uh all things are possible to him that believeth. Lord, I believe. Help thou mine unbelief. And then uh in Mark 11, 24, it says this. It says, uh, quote, uh, what things soever ye desire when ye pray, believe that ye shall receive them, and ye shall have them. So that's why the woman who had an issue of blood twelve years, who thought to herself, Hey, all I need to do is but touch the hem of his garment as he walks by, and I'll be healed. It was her faith. The Lord didn't even know what had happened until after it had happened. She had the faith that if she but touched his hem, she would be healed. And she was. And what did the Lord say? Go thy way, thy faith. That was her faith, thy faith hath made thee whole. So I still believe in a God of miracles, even though it's 2025, I've seen a lot of them. That's awesome.

Scott Brandley:

That's that's yeah, that's inspiring. Um, I think that's hard. That's hard in the day and age that we live in. Like I was saying earlier, like if we almost technology is almost replacing God in a way, and it's scary.

Dr. Mark Saunders:

I gotta have you just another little quote here. It says, Counsel with the Lord in all thy doings, and he shall direct thee for good. And so I just keep on emphasizing over and over the importance of listening to the Holy Ghost and living worthy so that we can be in tune with the Holy Ghost for our own personal lives, because what Scott needs or what Emily needs might be something totally different than what I need. That's why it's called personal revelation. Every member of the church is a member of the church because why? The Holy Ghost bore record to them that the Book of Mormon was true, that the church is true. That's how we know. We don't gain testimonies by listening to other people, we gain testimonies via the power of the Holy Ghost, speaking to our own spirits, and that's how we all gain a testimony. That's why it's so important, like President Kimball, or excuse me, President Nelson said, that's why it's so important that we learn to receive that personal revelation in our lives. And as we do that, we're blessed.

Emily Hemmert:

Mark, I I really am excited to be able to read your book. I love um being able to read stories like that that you know really are inspiring. Can you tell us more about how we can get a copy of your book?

Dr. Mark Saunders:

Sure. All you need to do is just go on to Amazon and look up Learning to Trust in the Lord. The subtitle is Who Is Still God of Miracles? But if you just put in Learning to Trust in the Lord and my name, Mark T. Saunders, MD.

Emily Hemmert:

Yeah. I think, I think, like you said, you know, the hope is that people who are listening to the show can read the book and feel the spirit testify to them about these miracles that have happened.

Dr. Mark Saunders:

Yeah. I I hope so too. I mean, I have so many other stories. I have one very interesting story about a guy who uh was on the operating table for uh uh cardiac disease, is having an angiogram he coded, and he met the Lord around a fire. A campfire. He died. He saw his body being worked on, you know, down there by the surgeons and so forth. He went, met the Lord around a campfire. I'd never heard this one before. It's like, okay. Met the Lord around a campfire, and the Lord simply sat down and they had a little chat, not a very long one. He says, Your family still needs you. There are several things you need to do. He didn't say what they were exactly, he just said, It's not your time. You need to go back. So then he comes back and he sees, he basically sees himself entering into his own body. They wake up and he's okay. But he he he it was interesting. It wasn't a very long story, but it was it was very interesting in that he was extremely sincere. He says, This is what happened to me. And I thought, you know, you usually hear about the tunnel of light and the light going to light and all those colors and so forth. I thought, well, isn't that interesting? Why would the Lord meet him around a campfire of all places and other people have these different experiences? I don't know. I don't know, but I think that the spirit world is a lot closer to us than we think. And I really didn't know why I wrote this book, but I just felt like I needed to share some of these stories because the Lord continued to put people into my path that I didn't know God. So all these stories I did not go and seek, and I did not go into their houses saying, Hey, do you have any special experiences you need to tell me? Not one single time did I ask anybody to reveal these to me. Every time they would say something in the order of, you know what? I don't usually say this, but I want to tell you this story, and I don't know exactly why, but do you have a minute or two? And I'd listen, and I'd listen intently, not only to the words that were being spoken, but I can testify with the spirit on multiple occasions, on almost all these occasions, told me what they were saying is true. I have a lady that had four separate miracles, and I won't have time to tell you those, but occurred. I can remember them because the spirit helps me recollect them because they're true. This lady had not just one, but four separate miracles. And another time when I had an extra almost hour to spare, that doesn't happen very often because I'm usually pretty busy, but at her house, and I I know where she lives, I just she told me about these, and one of them involved Elder Remland. One of the stories that she told me about was the fact that at the time she'd gone through some difficult times in her life and was divorced and so forth. And anyway, she would just pray into the Lord one day, say, I need something to do. I I I'm going crazy, I don't know what to do with my life. Next thing you know, two people show up at the at her door and said, Hey, we need a choral director or chorister at the Gunnison State Prison. She says, Well, I love music. I'd be happy to do that. Give me something to do. The Lord just answered my prayer. She'd literally just been praying. The Lord answered the prayer, so she became the choral director down at the Gunnison State uh prison. Well, one Easter, uh, she was attending there with uh, you know, being a chorister, and Elder Renland came to talk at the prison. He hadn't been assigned. The prophet said, You know what? On this Easter, I want all of you to go someplace where you feel inspired to go. Elder Renland, of all things, chose the Gunnison, Utah State prison. He went there and he said, You know, there's none of you here that have gone too far that the Lord can't redeem you. Or something along those words. And what's interesting, it really touched her heart. But as time went on, after that talk that Elder Renland gave, she started becoming attracted to a prison inmate who was in prison for shooting somebody during a robbery by the name of Chris. And the Lord told her, you know, Chris is a really good guy. Uh she's okay, well, Chris is a good guy, even though he's here. Okay. Then next week, next week, he uh he uh the Lord told her again as she was leading the music and doing some things down in the prison Chris is going to be your husband. She couldn't believe it. She said, That's impossible, Lord. That that that can't happen. He shot a man in a robbery. That's not gonna happen. Well, guess what? Yeah. So Wow. All I can tell you is, and she said, you know, Elder Enlands went there because he felt like he was inspired to go there. But she said she felt like he was talking directly to her and to him. And I won I won't go through all the details of the story, but it it it it's truly amazing to me that the Lord knows each and every single one of us on a personal basis. And I testify that that's true. And I know I've taken up more time than I intended to, but uh, and I hope I didn't get too much on, you know. But I I really, I really just believe with all my heart that as we do what we're told to do and put our trust in the Lord, hey, I'm a believer, I guess.

Scott Brandley:

Yeah, well, I mean, I your conviction of of your faith and is I mean, incredible. You can just feel it. And um, the amount of research and study that you've done is obvious. Um, it's funny because as you've been talking, it almost feels like a radical idea to have so much faith in in the gospel and in God and in and in the Lord in the world we live in. It's it's you're almost like it feels almost radical the things that you're saying, but they're true. I know no, but it but it's true. Like we should have more faith, we should trust in the spirit.

Dr. Mark Saunders:

Well, you know, it well, I I just you know what? I read the scriptures every single day, and I know I'm kind of weird. I actually memorize scripture. Scriptures when I'm when I'm reading them, I'll go through right now. I'm just part of the book. I just finished the New Testament, just started. I'm like 1 Nephi chapter 10. But I go through, and as I read the scriptures, there are certain passages that really hit home to me. The spirit says, that is an important scripture for Mark Thomas Saunders. So in those cases, when the spirit moves me to do so, I try to memorize those things. And it, I don't know, I did I know I'm kind of weird, but but I really believe what they say. And people in the church, they look at Doctrine and Covenants, for example, section 42, and it talks about you know, calling for the elders of the church, and he that hath faith to be healed shall be healed if he is not appointed unto death, right? And if he dies, he dies unto the Lord or she. Or if he or she lives, let him live unto the Lord. The most important thing is that we live or die, quote, unto the Lord. The length of our life has very little of anything to do with our eternal salvation, but who we put our trust in and who we actually believe in has everything to do with our eternal salvation. You know, I I quote all the time Proverbs 3, 5, and 6 trust in the Lord with all thine heart, and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. So sometimes we do things that don't make sense to us. Nephi, I just read just today, you had to slay Laban. Oh, wait a second. The scriptures say, Thou shalt not kill, right? But what did the Lord tell Nephi to do to Laban? Laban had sought his life and his brother's life when they went to seek the brass plates. And Nephi knew that Neph that Laban wouldn't hesitate a second to kill him if he had the opportunity. And the Lord said, I put him into thy hands and for a wise purpose unto him. So, you know, in the Pearl of the Great Price in the book of Abraham, we're really commanded to do all things whatsoever the Lord to see if they would do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them. I think is what the scripture says. Do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them. Well, Nephi, even though the scriptures say thou shalt not kill, he obeyed the Lord, Abraham. Same thing, thou shalt not kill. Hey, you know, this son of yours, he's gonna have seeds, posterity so numerous that you're gonna be like the sands of the of the of the of the sea. But wait a second, the Lord told him to sacrifice his own son, and Abraham was willing to do so because he had faith that the Lord could even raise him from the dead if necessary. Now that's the kind of faith that I think people need to have, and I don't have that kind of faith yet. Hey, I am a long ways from it. But you know what? I'm gonna keep on trusting in him because it's a lot better as Psalms 118. It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man, and I'm gonna keep on doing that, yeah.

Scott Brandley:

Honestly, Mark, um, this feels like a breath of fresh air in a way. And I was I said it's kind of rad, it feels radical, but it also feels true, and it's just something we don't hear a lot of as members of the church. It's it's that that passion and that to have that true trust.

Dr. Mark Saunders:

We we're getting to the point in time we kind of need to rebel, I think, a little bit. But no, the Lord was pretty much a rebel, too, you know. My opinion. You've got some rebel, you've got some rebel in you, Mark. I can tell. It's been nice talking to both of you. I hope I didn't overspeak or hurt anybody's feeling my attention. I put this pretty seriously in my book toward the end. I say, hey, it's not my intention to point fingers or find fault with anybody. That is not my intention. So if people got whatever, or if they still believe in back, that's fine. Everybody should have the right to decide for themselves what they themselves think is appropriate. That's why that quote by uh Russell M. Nelson is so important. And one other quote that I really like from Russell President Nelson, one of my favorite quotes of all time, he says this quote, there is only one in whom your faith is always safe, and that is in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Emily Hemmert:

Well, I look forward to reading your book. It sounds really inspiring.

Dr. Mark Saunders:

Well, you folks have a wonderful evening. Hope I didn't take up too much time. So have a great night. Thank you for having me.

Scott Brandley:

Awesome. Yeah, thanks, Mark, for being on, and thanks everyone for tuning in for another episode of Latterday Lights. If you have a story like Mark that you'd like to share, go to latterdaylights.com and let's have you on the show and share some of your light. And don't forget to hit that share button. Let's get Mark's story out there so that we can share this information with everyone else out there. So thanks again, Mark, and thanks everyone for tuning in. We'll talk to you next week with another episode of Latterday Lights. Take care.

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Scott Brandley

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