The Journey to Divine Testimonial Reconstruction: Marlisa Wootton's Story - Latter-Day Lights

When the pillars of faith begin to quake, will you retreat to familiar ground, or brave the tremors to seek answers?

Musician and doctoral audiology student, Marlisa Wootton, recalls a pivotal moment in 2020 when she dared to confront the unsettling waves of a faith crisis—an inner storm that questioned the spiritual foundation she once thought unshakable. Taking the risk of willingly diving into controversial thought spirals and studies on Church history, societal issues, and personal identity, she found herself at a crossroads: remain in familiar but secluded territory, or rebuild a testimony strong enough to find the answers to her faith's purpose.

Fueled by curiosity, Marlisa chose a path of bold inquiry—discovering that deconstruction can bring about a tender new understanding of Heavenly Father’s boundless love. Through heartfelt introspection on everything from LGBTQ matters to the longing for Heavenly Mother, her journey blossomed into an inspired musical calling: rewriting and composing cherished hymns to reflect the beauty of embracing questions without losing faith.

Join us as Marlisa reveals how searching for truth in the deepest doubts awakened a richer spiritual resonance and fortified her resolve to remain exactly where God needed her to be. Her story stands as a hopeful testament that every moment of spiritual upheaval can become a sacred invitation to look deeper, love more resolutely, and rediscover the unbreakable promise of the Savior’s guiding presence.

*** Please SHARE Marlisa's story and help us spread hope and light to others. ***

To WATCH this episode, visit: https://youtu.be/QgaBwMc_c0A

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To WATCH "Stand Forever" by Lawrence Corbridge, visit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSEsLtwKzvw

To CONTACT Marlisa, email: wootton.marlisa@gmail.com

To READ Marlisa's book "Praises: A Collection of Hymns and Poems," visit: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BQY45SSB

To LISTEN to Marlisa's instrumental version of "I'll Stay Where You Want Me To Stay," visit: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hwty-MVfFsOwrfJKHRx-m_QlAX19z4nM/view?usp=sharing

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Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 0:32 Welcoming Marlisa Wootton to the show
• 1:24 Marlisa in a nutshell
• 4:12 Self-driving cars & other robots
• 6:25 Marlisa’s connection to music at a young age
• 7:13 Deconstructing religious views
• 10:30 Reconstructing religious views
• 12:35 Marlisa’s testimony pre-deconstruction
• 13:35 Why did Marlisa do it?
• 16:40 The 2 “sides” of the Church
• 19:14 The importance of deconstructing your testimony
• 20:30 Navigating deconstruction while married
• 21:55 Accepting people who’ve gone astray
• 25:10 Marlisa’s rock bottom
• 29:17 Scott’s deconstruction journey as a Bishop
• 30:55 “Stand Forever” by Lawrence Corbridge
• 33:03 Alisha’s views on worst-case scenarios
• 35:50 LGBTQIA+ member of the Church: Charlie Bird
• 37:25 Christian theologian: Richard Rohr
• 39:55 Faith and music coming together
• 42:52 Marlisa’s rewrite “I’ll Stay Where You Want Me To Stay”
• 50:27 Getting musical downloads from reconstruction
• 53:51 Marlisa’s testimony
• 56:38 Love as empathy + honoring where people are
• 57:23 Where to find Marlisa
• 1:00:36 Final thoughts
• 1:01:55 Outro

Transcript

Scott Brandley: 0:00

Hi everyone, I'm Scott Brandley.

Alisha Coakley: 0:02

And I'm Alisha Coakley. Every member of the church has a story to share, one that can instill faith, invite growth and inspire others.

Scott Brandley: 0:10

On today's episode we're going to hear how one musician is using her gift to help others deconstruct and reconstruct their testimonies on their walks with God. Welcome to Latter-day Lights. Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Latter-day Lights. We're so glad you're here with us today and we're really excited to introduce our special guest, marlisa Wootton, to the show. Marlisa, welcome.

Marlisa Wootton: 0:43

Thank you. Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here.

Alisha Coakley: 0:46

We're so happy to have you. Yeah, so, marlisa, tell us, how did you come across the podcast?

Marlisa Wootton: 0:56

Oh gosh, I really enjoy LDS podcasts, and yours is one that came up among a whole bunch of others, so I've listened to a few episodes and, yeah, I'm happy to be here.

Alisha Coakley: 1:10

Awesome, perfect. We always love when we get new listeners, and especially when they're brave and they reach out to become beauty guests. Yeah.

Marlisa Wootton: 1:19

Thank you so much.

Alisha Coakley: 1:20

Yeah Well, why don't you tell us just a little bit about yourself?

Marlisa Wootton: 1:26

Yeah, well, why don't you tell us just a little bit about yourself? Yeah, so my name is Marlisa Wootton. I grew up in the middle of nowhere in Idaho. It's a tiny little town called Yukon Idaho, and the only reason I name it is because my dad would be upset if I didn't say Yukon Idaho, instead just left it as the middle of nowhere. But everywhere in Idaho is the middle of nowhere. Yeah, I went to Utah State University for my undergrad, which is where I met my husband. We've been married about six, six and a half years now. Yeah, I went to Arizona State University.

Marlisa Wootton: 2:04

I am six months, five and a half months, out from getting a clinical doctorate in audiology. I want to work with kids with hearing loss. Yeah, I've got a dog and two little birds. I love music. I've played the piano since I was I think six is when I started taking lessons and I enjoy writing music. On occasion I sing out of necessity, because I enjoy writing music, though that is definitely not my instrument. So that's kind of me. In a nutshell, very good, cool, thank you so.

Scott Brandley: 2:44

are you attending ASU remotely?

Marlisa Wootton: 2:48

So the it's a four year program. There were three years that were in person and then the last year is like a year of residency. It's called an externship for clinical doctorate in audiology and it was just way too dang hot in Phoenix and Zach and I we couldn't do it anymore so we were like we were out of here. So now we're in the Denver area so we like it here very much and it's much closer to family than Phoenix was.

Alisha Coakley: 3:18

So yeah, I'm in Texas and you're right, it's hot. I miss the change of seasons and the snow and the cold weather. And you're right, it's hot. I, I miss. I miss the change of seasons and the snow and the cold weather and all the things. So I feel yeah.

Marlisa Wootton: 3:32

I miss seasons. When we first moved there, I was like there's no weather here and people who were local didn't understand it, and the other people who were also from cold places, they were like, yeah, it's always the same. It's always the same way. Yeah, it's like the season is hot or hotter that's yeah, that's what you get.

Alisha Coakley: 3:53

It's summer and other summer it's yeah, it's like the, the hobbits versions, you know, like first dinner, second dinner, third dinner, whatever.

Marlisa Wootton: 3:58

It's yeah, first, second, summer, whatever yeah, I mean to be fair to phoenix.

Scott Brandley: 4:03

Winters there are the most beautiful summers, but summers there are horrendous oh yeah, I was just in phoenix and it was so freaking hot. I actually I actually spoke at asu and one of the one of the coolest things about that I don't I don't know if these were there when you were there, but the automatic driving cars- oh yeah, the Waymos.

Marlisa Wootton: 4:27

I loved those. Yeah, I used those on occasion. Or Zach and I used them on occasion for flights, so like to get to and from the airport, because our flights were like really weird times and I didn't want to ask someone to drive us to the airport or drive us home at like three in the morning. So we used the Waymo and I loved it and he hated it because he's like I don't trust these robots and I was like I trust the robots more than I trust Phoenix drivers.

Scott Brandley: 4:52

I'm sorry, Phoenix, but it's a little bit of a freaky experience getting in a car with no driver and let it drive you around the city, right.

Marlisa Wootton: 5:01

Yeah, it is a little bit freaky, although I am kind of an introverted person and I don't really like small talk, so I actually enjoyed the fact that I didn't have to try and pretend to make small talk with someone.

Alisha Coakley: 5:16

So oh, that's so funny. Yeah, I don't know. I saw, uh, what's that I? What's that I robot? Is that what it's called the will smith movie? Ah, yeah, that's kind of I'm with your husband I'm with your husband on that.

Marlisa Wootton: 5:33

It's a little, a little unnerving it is all for automation, but some things I don't know about yeah, yeah, on asu campus um, they also had little robots all over campus that would deliver food.

Scott Brandley: 5:47

Oh yeah, I saw one of those.

Marlisa Wootton: 5:48

Yeah yeah. It was super weird. The first time I saw them I was like what the heck is happening. I was like looking around to see if I could find who was like remote controlling it. And then I found out that no, it's just that's what they do. But Phoenix is a good place to do that, because they have no weather.

Scott Brandley: 6:05

Right, good times. Well, yeah, we're really excited to hear your story, marlisa. I keep on saying Marlisa, you probably hear that all the time, right?

Marlisa Wootton: 6:17

I do hear that a lot.

Scott Brandley: 6:18

We're excited to hear your story. So why don't we pass the time to you and tell us where your story begins?

Marlisa Wootton: 6:25

Sure, I mean, I guess, if I look all the way back, my story begins when I was a little kid and starting in piano lessons when I was six and I just fell in love with it. I have been playing piano basically my whole life and I was born a member of the church. I really, really loved the church growing up and everything about it. I'm a descendant from pioneers and music was always the way that I connected the most with God and the time that I really felt the spirit the strongest and the most, and that is still true today. Starting in about 2020-ish, I started to have a little bit of a change in perspective, change in worldviews. I think a lot of people did. I mean, 2020 was such a crazy time I don't know if you remember the memes of, like me looking out the window to see, like, what chapter revelations were in this month, Like it was very, very much that kind of vibe and yeah, so I became a little bit more interested in some like social justice things and just kind of expanding my worldview.

Marlisa Wootton: 8:00

In middle of nowhere, Idaho, and then in Logan, Utah, which is also quite small and very, very much the same. They're both lovely places, but it's a very homogenous place to be, and Phoenix it was a whole different world, an entirely different place and lots of people from all over the place, a very big city, um, very, very different from the other places that I had lived. And, um, anyway, with with moving there came um more of like kind of deconstruction of things that, um, I was taught growing up, um things that I learned, um beliefs that I held, and I hit this point of just kind of deconstructing everything Um, and I I think that, honestly, was a really great thing to happen for me. Ultimately, Um, I know a lot of people, especially in a Christian space like this, are afraid of the word deconstruction. What it is is doing. Exactly what God has asked us to do is to try our faith, is to look at our beliefs and decide what do I really believe. I did a lot of reading scripture. I read the words of Jesus more in 2020, 2021, 2022 than I think I ever had, Just consumed as much church history and Christian doctrine from many writers and scholars of LDS faith, but also writers and scholars from Jewish backgrounds and Catholic backgrounds and Islamic backgrounds and people in and out of the church, and I think I grew a lot as a person and came to let go of some of the beliefs that I held that were not as Christlike as I think that I would like to be, and came to hold more beliefs that are, I think, in line with what God wants us to do, which is to love everyone and treat everyone as a child of God wants us to do, which is to love everyone and treat everyone as a child of God.

Marlisa Wootton: 10:30

And so I did a lot of deconstructing and questioning everything I believed and then a lot of reconstructing, and that process, I think, is going to look really different for a lot of people. Deconstruction is a moment when you stop and look at every little piece of your faith, every belief that you have, and question it and really put it under a microscope and do I like this, Do I believe this? And take everything apart, and the reconstruction process is going to look very different for everyone, but for me it was a lot of putting back the really big things that mattered the most to me. The really big things for me were my faith in Jesus Christ as my savior and my belief in him and understanding in him as both a deity and a real historical human being who lived. Other things that really grew for me were my faith in heavenly parents, and I came to know Heavenly Mother a little bit, which was an incredible journey to go on, to go on and just really feeling the depths of their love for me in a way that I never had before.

Marlisa Wootton: 11:56

There were some things that I set aside as not as important, there were a couple of things that I let go of, but what was beautiful to me in the reconstruction process of my faith was how much stronger those pieces that I put back were, and and the foundation of my faith became, um, my faith in my savior, Jesus Christ, and my faith in a heavenly father and heavenly mother who love me very much and who are rooting for me and helping me all along the way.

Marlisa Wootton: 12:28

And before I mean, I had a testimony before deconstructing, but I feel like my testimony before deconstructing was really like my foundation of my testimony was the fact that I was born into the faith, which I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, no, but it just it didn't stand up to scrutiny when I started to take things apart. You know, just because the traditions of our fathers sometimes they're good and sometimes they're not, and sometimes they're just neutral and I that that wasn't a sturdy enough foundation for me. But when I started to rebuild my faith with um, with the words of Christ at the center and with a belief in heavenly parents who love me at at the center um it I, I really grew a lot in in my testimony.

Alisha Coakley: 13:25

So so can I ask you real quick, uh, and and you don't have to answer if you don't want to I just I am always curious to know, like um, two things one, what kind of like put you on that path of wanting to really, like, take your testimony apart and look at all of the little pieces? And two, what were some of those pieces that you were kind of like, do I really believe this? I don't really know. Or is this something that I, you know, like need to reconfigure or reconstruct? So so yeah, kind of, what got you started and and where, what did that process look like of actually taking it apart? And where, what did that process look like of actually taking it apart.

Marlisa Wootton: 14:08

Yeah, I think it kind of the ball really got started in 2020. Just things got so incredibly divisive then about I mean in politics and society, and I feel like we became much more polarized than we were before 2020. But just saying something because we were already pretty polarized up to that point.

Scott Brandley: 14:32

Plus, we were isolated, right, we were all separated.

Alisha Coakley: 14:36

And we had nothing to do but be online Right All the time.

Marlisa Wootton: 14:41

Uh-huh, yeah, yeah, all the time, yeah, so I feel like seeing seeing just how people interacted with each other made me kind of. It gave me pause, um, but the thing that I think really um turned that snowball into an avalanche and it all came down was in like 2021 ish. Um, right as I was starting grad school, right after we had moved to Phoenix, I had made friends who were part of the LGBTQ community. I started to question whether I fit in the LGBTQ community. I started to um learn more about disability, disability rights, um learned more about just a lot of things.

Marlisa Wootton: 15:32

I started questioning things in in the church, a lot with the, the LGBTQ community and the questions there about um just how how our church views LGBTQ people and, um, how I felt personally like our heavenly parents view LGBTQ people. So that was the thing that kind of triggered it and um kind of started everything and after that it was well, what about heavenly mother and what about the family proclamation and what about church history stuff and what about pioneers and some of the history of the pioneers and things that happened as we crossed the plains? What about polygamy? What about? And itamy, what about the race ban in our church? And it just the whatabouts was. Yeah, yeah, it started with LGBTQ stuff and just all of the whatabouts came down.

Alisha Coakley: 16:41

And I'm sure it's probably hard. You know, when you say the church, there's like two, there's like two thoughts that people have it's the church as a culture which is flawed, greatly, right. And then the church is the gospel, which is not right. But then in, in between, you have practices, right, like practices that the gospel interlocks in the culture, takes and does their thing, and then there's muddiness. At least that's how I've seen it, right.

Marlisa Wootton: 17:10

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's hard because there's there's a whole lot of, there's a whole lot of gray and there's a whole lot of complexity there. I don't know that it's necessarily accurate or fair necessarily to divide it so, half and half in there is the church and then there's the doctrine, or there's the culture and then there's the gospel, because they play on each other and they change. And how do you decide when a prophet is talking as a prophet or when a prophet is just talking as themselves, and how do we make those decisions? And there's a lot of complexity there and I think, I think it's fair to give just to say that that's an important conversation to have about which is which and are they the same sometimes and are they different sometimes?

Marlisa Wootton: 18:06

And yeah, but but yeah, that that did make it, that that did play a really crucial role or I guess, was a really really big feature in all of that of like um, the race ban, for example, like was, was that doctrine at one point? Was it not doctrine? Do I believe that that was handed down from God? I don't Do other people Maybe. Why might people think one way or the other? And that's all part of the deconstruction process too, is looking at those lines between the church and the gospel, or the culture and the doctrine, and we're not the only faith where people do that and talk about the differences between them. We see that all the time in. I mean, catholicism is one where that comes up often, and that's just Judaism, islam, all of it. Yeah, anyway, sorry.

Alisha Coakley: 19:10

No, I appreciate you answering that and being being so transparent, cause I think it's an important thing for us to bring up. You know, like it's one thing just to be like, oh, I deconstruct my testimony, but then to be like, yeah, no, these are things that I didn't know about or I wasn't sure about, or I thought I was sure about, and then I'm like, wait, how can I love what you said about? You didn't feel like your testimony could stand up to scrutiny, right. So like it was a testimony that you needed to get you to where you were. But now that you're in a new position in your life, can it be solid enough to stand up to scrutiny? And not that you have to prove it to anybody, but do you feel safe inside yourself to defend it, even if you don't understand everything? Right?

Marlisa Wootton: 19:53

Yeah, okay, yeah, exactly it's. I think our testimonies are supposed to evolve and change and I think if you're at a point where you have arrived at your testimony and you feel like you're done, you probably haven't started yet.

Scott Brandley: 20:12

Or you're about to have a big shock.

Marlisa Wootton: 20:16

Or that. But yeah, if you feel like you're done and your testimony like it's cooked, it's done. I've arrived. There's probably more work left to be done.

Alisha Coakley: 20:28

So how did your husband um, I mean like was, did he know what was going on? Did you talk to him about these questions that you had? And where was, where was he at in that?

Marlisa Wootton: 20:38

Yeah, I mean I I talked to him a fair bit about some of the questions that I was having. It wasn't a regular topic of conversation, though. A lot of what I was thinking and considering was happening internally. I did a lot of reading, a lot of books, or, I guess, listening to a lot of audio books, listening to a lot of podcasts and doing a lot of research. Yeah, it was very much an internal thing and I think that that was right for me and for us. In the moment, we do talk about things on occasion. It's not like we don't talk about our faith with each other. We do have gospel discussions and things together, but it I, for a few years there, did quite a lot of um, quite a lot of internal thinking and pondering and writing in my journal and and everything Um, yeah, so it's not like he was unaware, but it was very much a internal thing for me. Yeah, we all process information differently and that's how I, that's how I process.

Scott Brandley: 21:52

So how did you, how did you deconstruct and still, I mean, look at it from a gospel perspective versus a secular perspective, or like, how did you navigate those, that water? Because, especially like when you get into some of the topics you got into, it's easy to go down, like to go down rabbit holes and then you might not be able to come back out of them. You know what I mean to go down rabbit holes and then you might not be able to come back out of them.

Marlisa Wootton: 22:26

You know what I mean.

Marlisa Wootton: 22:27

Yeah, I mean I.

Marlisa Wootton: 22:27

I don't know that it's necessarily fair to say that, like if you go deconstruct or if you go research about a topic that you're never coming back, um, certainly, there are some people who who start to deconstruct and their journey of faith takes them in a direction that, um is, is not where maybe their family members might want them to be, that being staying in the church or staying on the path or or whatever.

Marlisa Wootton: 22:55

But, um, as I was talking, telling you guys before the show started, um, I, I, I don't necessarily like to use the language of like lost and talking about people who may leave, because our heavenly parents know us and love us so, so deeply. I don't think that it would be possible for any of us to be lost from them. They know where we are, they know where we're going, they know what our journey is, they know where we're going, they know what our journey is, and I think we, as members of the church, probably give ourselves a lot of unnecessary stress in worrying about the people who have gone astray or left or lost, it's okay, god has them.

Marlisa Wootton: 23:47

And, um, something that I learned, um in in my studies to become a doctor of audiology is that when someone tells you that they're not ready for something, they're not ready and that's okay.

Marlisa Wootton: 24:01

And I need to take people, I need to take my patients at face value and believe them when they tell me where they are. Um, and my response to that usually it's in the case of telling people you have hearing loss and you need hearing aids, and the comeback is no, I don't, and no, I won't get hearing. And then, and in that case, even though I think that I am right, um, it is not the healthy or supportive thing to do to look at them and tell them that they're wrong or try and change their mind. It is the supportive and loving thing to say, okay, that's just fine, I'll be here when you need me and leave it at that. And that is the only way to be supportive of people who have been lost or gone astray or whatever it's. It's just to be where you are and be okay with where they are and and just let that be okay. I'm sorry, that was like a whole tangent.

Scott Brandley: 25:04

No, you answered it, so I guess my next question would be at what point did you hit the bottom and start to reconstruct Like what did that look like?

Marlisa Wootton: 25:30

for years, for for I mean, yeah, like a year and a half, two years, it was LGBTQ stuff and um, family proclamation, heavenly mother, the race band, the pioneers, the churches, like all of the things. And I finally hit this point where I kind of got to the bottom, where I like didn't have any other questions left and the only questions left were is do I believe that God is real and do I believe in Jesus Christ? And if I do, in what way? Because I mean, we're not the only Christian denominations, there are lots of ways to believe in Christ and in God. And so I finally hit that point and I very briefly that was, I think the shortest thing of deconstruction was thinking and pondering on that one, and those two felt right to me, and so those two things were the first two things to be put back as my foundation, because they were the things that just sat well in my heart. And so I put those two things back first and then I started to kind of put other things back on. There are lots of those things that I kind of took off the shelf and set aside. Shelf and set aside the moment when your shelf breaks is a very common thing that's discussed within the sphere of deconstruction, especially within Mormon spheres, and I kind of took all of those things down and set them aside and I haven't ignored them and they're still there.

Marlisa Wootton: 27:08

And there are a number of those things that I have strong opinions about, none of which I will be sharing here. There are some of those things that I may disagree with or have different opinions on and may not share the same opinion as the people sitting next to me in the pews, but I'm okay with that. But I did take many things like the race ban, for example. I don't think for me personally, I don't think that that was something that came from God. I'm not going to tell someone else that they can't believe that or that they can't believe whatever it is that they believe about, about how that happened, but what I can say regarding that is that I believe that god loves all of their children, that our heavenly mother and father love everyone equally, and that was something I was able to take from what I had deconstructed and place that on like back back into my reconstruction of God loves all of us, everyone, and so I guess I just kind of started to pick up the pieces of the things that had been pulled apart and deconstructed apart and deconstructed and many of those things are still there, like I had said, but I took the things that were good and that sat well with me and started to build those things back up.

Marlisa Wootton: 28:34

So, yeah, and like I said, I still have things that I disagree with people on, but I'm okay with that, that's okay. I don't think we're, I don't think we are a stronger church or stronger people when we are entirely homogenous and incapable of sitting on the pews next to people who we may disagree with, even on big things, even on church things, even on doctrine. That's okay, that's how it's going to go. We're all at church because we're all trying to learn and come closer to God and grow as a community, because we all know the right things, say the right things, do the right things in the same way. That's okay. Yeah.

Alisha Coakley: 29:13

Yeah, I totally agree with you.

Scott Brandley: 29:16

Yeah, so I have a very similar experience to you, marlisa, actually.

Alisha Coakley: 29:20

Yeah.

Scott Brandley: 29:21

When I was, when I was the Bishop, I had a couple come to my I was a brand new Bishop bishop couple came in and met with me and they brought up all these concerns and, um, I don't know, I don't know if you remember when the church came out with all those essays and it talks, it talked a lot about these kind of topics, education system because they were trying to, like, just clear out all the skeletons out of the closet and they're like this is all the stuff, right?

Scott Brandley: 29:49

Yeah, and I'd never heard of it before and they came and met with me and they're like we have some serious concerns here. So I went home that night and I read every single essay.

Marlisa Wootton: 29:58

Oh, like the gospel doctrine or the gospel topics essays.

Scott Brandley: 30:04

They're on the church's website. So, yeah, they talk about, like you know, the different first visions, blacks in the priesthood, um, you know the nature of God, things like that and that really threw me. It really threw me and I went into I had a faith crisis as the bishop and, um, and I had to I didn't I never used the term deconstruct and reconstruct, but that's exactly what I did. I had to break down my testimony into the most basic elements, just like you did, and I had to put them back together and, and, um, that was a big change. That was a turning point in my life, just kind of like it was for you, and one, one of the things that really helped me. I actually I wrote a book about it, but I haven't published. I haven't published it yet, but one of the things I found later is there's a talk and you might've heard it. It's from Lawrence Corbridge of the 70. It's called Stand Forever.

Marlisa Wootton: 31:06

I don't know that I have, and he it's.

Scott Brandley: 31:08

It's one of my favorite talks of all time, and what he he calls um, the pieces of the like, different doctrines of the gospel. He calls them primary and secondary questions, and the primary questions are the most important things. They're like is god real? Is jesus christ the son of god? Was joseph smith a prophet? Right and um, is the church true, like the big, the big marvels, right and then he and then he's like everything else is a secondary question and it pales by comparison in or in importance. It's not that it's not important, it's just that these things are the most important things and that's you know, what you and I have figured out going through our journey.

Marlisa Wootton: 31:52

But it's just fascinating because I went through a similar thing yeah, I don't think I've heard that talk before, but I have heard that language of like primary and secondary questions and, yeah, I think it's. I think it's an important. It's an important thing that people find the things that are primary for them and what is primary to their testimony and then, you know, build those things back up from from there. And, like I had said before about like people being lost or whatever it's, I think we need to be okay when people um, reconstruct and don't land in the same place that they were before. Some people are going to deconstruct and reconstruct and land right back where they were, and some people are going to deconstruct and reconstruct and end up in a completely different place. And I think, like I had said before, we need to be okay, knowing that God has them and that everything's going to be okay. We don't need to stress when people land in other places.

Alisha Coakley: 33:03

You know, since doing this show, one of the things that I have really been able to come to terms with is the fact that worst case scenario, it makes a really great story, like when thing, you know, like when you, I mean, we've had. Like Dusty Smith, he walked away, he was an apostate of the church for 26 years and like to the point where he was apologizing to people that he had baptized on his mission years. And like to the point where he was apologizing to people that he had baptized on his mission and say, like he I mean, he went so far out and that he had these amazing miraculous experiences that brought him back. And when it brought him back after 26 years of fighting against the church, he had a whole different perspective, where one he was more knowledgeable, right, so he could have the conversations with people. He knew what people felt like too, which I think sometimes you just don't. You don't know until you get in the trenches with others what their perspective is. You can guess, you can imagine, but you don't actually know until you're like down and dirty with them, you're like going through it, how big of a deal it is.

Alisha Coakley: 34:09

And so I think that, heavenly father, I just love the scripture that talks about how he can work all things to our good. And you are right, like it may not be, even in this lifetime, that they come back to the gospel or um, you know, like it, it may be a whole different path, but if it's a path that brings them closer to God in the gospel or um, you know, like it, it may be a whole different path, but if it's a path that brings them closer to God in the very end, ultimately, that's that's the most important thing is that they feel that relationship with their father in Jesus Christ and that they learn of him and that they, they can be with him again one day, if that's what they really want. Cause we, we forget about choice sometimes, right, we forget, like this whole experience is to come to make decisions and then to choose where we want to be in the afterlife.

Scott Brandley: 34:58

Our choice is overrated.

Alisha Coakley: 35:00

I know, right, some people are going to be really genuinely their happiest not in the presence of God, like some people, just they're just that's what they're going to be most comfortable with, based on their uh, their decision, and not that they're going to hell or anything. I'm just saying like in general, like we talk about the three different kingdoms, so maybe they are just going to be the most comfortable in one of, you know, one of the other kingdoms or something like that, and I think that that's okay. Like heavenly father still loves him, he's going to, he can go be with them, you know, and and he can talk to them, and we're going to get everything that that we need, um, in the next life and every opportunity to have that, because heavenly father loves us so much. You know, like none of us are going to be disappointed. I don't think anyway.

Marlisa Wootton: 35:50

I, yeah I I want to back up a little bit. I have two people who I want to talk about briefly, who I think do a really excellent job of um just talking about their faith and where they are and being okay with people's journeys. The first is Charlie Bird. He is a gay man, gay member of the church. He's married to a man and he is still an actively participating member, so far as he is able to be. He knows many people who have left the church and that for them, that is the healthiest place for them to be and that that's where they feel they need to be. He knows many people who have stayed in the church and that that's where they feel like they need to be and that that is the healthiest place for them. And he gets crap so much of it from both the people who have left for how could you possibly say that it's okay for people to stay and from people who stay of how could you possibly say that it's okay for people to leave? And he gets so much crap from both the LGBTQ community and the people who are still members of the church for saying it's okay to let people go where it is best and healthiest for them to be, and that's not going to be the same place for everyone. If Charlie Bird ever happens to hear this episode and I misquoted him or misrepresented him in any way, feel free to correct me.

Marlisa Wootton: 37:26

The other person who I think does a really good job of this is Richard Rohr. He is a Franciscan, he's a Catholic and he's absolutely amazing. He's a Christian, theologian and, oh my goodness, he has quite a lot of criticism for the Catholic Church. He calls out the Catholic Church on quite a lot of criticism for the Catholic church. He calls out the Catholic church on on quite a lot of things, many of the same types of things that, um, our church gets crap about. Um, and he's he's willing to call out his church on things that he thinks are wrong or not. Okay, um, he also is still a Catholic and he's still a Franciscan and he stands firmly in his belief of Christ, even while being able to say these things that the Catholic Church did were wrong and naming them, I I reading the words of Richard Rohr um did a lot for me in helping me decide that, um, I needed to stay and that for me, right now, that that was what was right for me at the moment, um, and I am completely okay with people deciding that where is healthiest and happiest and best for them is outside of the church.

Marlisa Wootton: 38:47

For some people, that is probably true and that's okay, but for me, I had decided that staying was where I needed to be personally, and reading the words of Richard Rohr and seeing the way that he was able to is able to talk about the Catholic church and things that he dislikes or disagrees with, and stand fully behind the words of Christ and do everything he can to be a good person and stand stand with Christ and try and embody the life of Christ, um, that really did a lot for me in showing me that I can hold beliefs that are different from the people who are sitting next to me in the pews, and I can stay and that can be okay and I won't be betraying myself, any parts of myself or others by doing so, um, in the same way that people who may leave can do so without betraying themselves or others.

Marlisa Wootton: 39:49

It's okay to let people's journeys be where they are.

Alisha Coakley: 39:55

So take us back to okay. So you're in the process of really reconstructing and figuring out like these key elements and stuff, and I know you've mentioned music earlier. So where do we start seeing these things come together?

Marlisa Wootton: 40:12

Yeah, so I'm a musician, I'm a pianist, I love the piano, I have been writing music my whole life and as I hit this point of getting into college and things, I was still playing the piano, but I was not was still playing the piano, but I was not writing music nearly as much as I was before. Uh, in my undergrad. And then I got to grad school, which was about the same time that all of this deconstruction happened. And as all of that deconstruction started happening and the reconstruction was happening on on both ends, um, it's like the. It was like the windows of heaven opened and I just it was like song after song after song after song, um, and I was able to write um just multiple songs.

Marlisa Wootton: 41:03

Um, some of them just piano solos, some of them words with musics, musics, gosh. Some of them words with music. Um, some of them were rewrites of other songs from the church. Um, a few of them that were like rewrites were um follow the prophet changed from Follow the Prophet to Follow the Spirit. With words about following, I mean the spirit, but like examples of leaders throughout the church, throughout history Eve, nephi, deborah, emma Smith, mary the mother of God. Just lots of people from lots of places and how they followed the spirit in their journey. Cause, following the prophets, great Neato.

Marlisa Wootton: 41:56

But I wanted something that also talked about following the spirit, and it's a killer tune. It's such a good tune I had to keep it. It's not that I inherently dislike the other song, but there was that one, and Put your Shoulder to the Wheel was another one where I added like change some things to be a little bit more modern and talk a little bit more about, like building each other up in community, which I think is something that we need to focus on, because we are not really like wheels across, like the planes anymore. So it's history, but it's not as applicable. And another rewrite that I did that meant a lot to me was a rewrite of I'll go where you want me to go to, I'll stay where you want me to stay, because for me that felt right at the time to stay so, and it still does. I'm still an active participating member.

Alisha Coakley: 42:50

So, um, that's my favorite and I would love to hear just a little like sneak peek of that Like could we, could you share some lyrics?

Marlisa Wootton: 43:03

I would be happy to share lyrics. Yes, um, let me. Um. I will be reading instead of singing it. Like I said, I'll stay where you want me to stay. They may not say what I thought they'd say or see what I know, I see. They may not hear what I want them to hear, but I'll stay where you want me to stay. I'll stay where you want me to stay. O God, close to thy holy son, I'll turn to thee on bended knee. I'll stay where you want me to stay.

Marlisa Wootton: 43:51

Second verse it may not be where I want to be, this thing you have asked of me, but trusting O God, with my hand in yours, I'll stay where you want me to stay. They may not see what my Savior sees or know how lone the path can be, so I'll humbly reverence thee El Shaddai and know you've a plan for me. I'll stay where you want me to stay. O God, close to thy holy son, I'll turn to thee on bended knee. I'll stay where you want me to stay. One sacred night, my savior knelt and drinking the bitter cup, he suffered for me a sacrifice. He stayed where you asked him to stay. He stayed where you asked him to stay. He stayed where you asked him to stay. O God, so trusting thy sacred son With my hand in his, with Christ, I'll say not my will, but thine be done. I'll stay where you want me to stay. O God, close to thy holy son, I'll turn to thee on bended knee.

Scott Brandley: 45:02

I'll stay where you want me to stay. Wow that.

Marlisa Wootton: 45:06

third verse was so powerful.

Alisha Coakley: 45:08

I'm sorry. Oh, my goodness. No, it's just so beautiful Like I can like, like, as you're reading it, I'm like singing it in my head and I'm just like, oh, I can't wait to hear it, I can't wait to hear the whole thing. And you are going to try to get a video link or something for for us with that song that we'll be able to add to the description, or maybe towards the end of the podcast or something.

Marlisa Wootton: 45:35

But I'm going to try and get a try and get a recording done of that one, yeah, and then if people want it for themselves, they can, I, I'll have it. I'll have it in the, in the book of songs that I'm doing.

Alisha Coakley: 45:51

So it's so beautiful and I love the message because I think you're right, like when we talked on the phone a little bit about that. Um, so often people think that we have to keep leaving to grow, like it means go change and go do this and go to that. But sometimes heavenly father really just wants us to chill. He's like I have you here for this reason and I need you to stay in this for a time, you know, or forever, maybe, I don't know. But, um, I personally love it and I I feel like I was like, oh, scott's going to love that too, because Scott's book is the faith to stay, you know, and I think sometimes it's it's such a it's a harder thing to stay than it is to leave. Leaving sometimes can be easy. Sometimes I'm not saying always, but just for me. I know I've had those moments where sometimes staying is is so hard, it's so hard and it's also the best place for me to be, so I stay, thank you.

Marlisa Wootton: 46:52

It's just beautiful.

Marlisa Wootton: 46:54

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. That was one of those that came at a time that I really needed it In, just where I hit a point of like do I stay, do I go? Neither feels right, neither feels wrong. What do I do?

Marlisa Wootton: 47:12

And at the time I felt called to stay, and so that's kind of where it came from. I also I had felt very called to go before. I felt called to go away from Idaho and go to Utah and go to school. I felt called to go on to grad school. I felt called to, you know, go, do all of these things that God has called the pioneers to go across the country. Well, to a different country it was Mexico at the time that they got there and like, called the Israelites to go, wander in the wilderness, and God will call us to go sometimes.

Marlisa Wootton: 47:50

But I wanted that that counter that other side of the coin of sometimes God will call us to stay and that that is a struggle worth honoring and that that is something worth writing about. So, because going is hard and sometimes we can be in this moment where we're like all right, I'll go where you want me, I'll go, I'll do it, I'll go and like wherever you want me, I'll do it. Um, but sometimes God is like, yeah, I need you here, like I need you to chill, I need you to find a way to settle in and be where you are and be present in where this is and find the lesson you're supposed to learn here. Sometimes, um, it's I mean, we all hit points like that in our lives right like, okay, I'm ready to go to whatever job you want me to, I'll go where you want me and god's like, no, you're gonna stay in this crappy job for a while or I'll go to whatever state you want.

Marlisa Wootton: 48:49

I'll go wherever in the world you want me to. Wherever it is, nope. I need you to stay right where you are, and that can be really hard, and I think that's a struggle worth worth honoring. So when we feel called to stay, yeah love it thank you we're kindred spirits.

Scott Brandley: 49:04

We're Lisa, yay you wrote that you wrote that song that that's. That is the title of my book faith to stay. That's like just crazy.

Marlisa Wootton: 49:14

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I have that on my bookshelf. Somewhere my dad gives me a book, for he gives all of us a book, a churchy book for for Christmas every year. That's his thing. I'm pretty sure I have your book on my bookshelf and I'm so sorry I haven't had a moment to get to it yet.

Scott Brandley: 49:27

We don't have his book yet. I haven't. I haven't published it yet, so it's not mine.

Marlisa Wootton: 49:32

I'm sorry.

Scott Brandley: 49:33

There must be one guy a similar name, there must be one with a similar name, that might be, I will send you a pre-release digital copy if you're interested in reading it, because our stories are similar, I would love that yeah, I'm so sorry.

Marlisa Wootton: 49:47

Now I feel really silly. I must know you can't read the book.

Alisha Coakley: 49:50

I'm so sorry look, it's a great title if someone else has something similar, you're good we can still be friends okay thank you, I'm sorry for shoving my foot in my mouth.

Marlisa Wootton: 50:07

I will attempt to pull it out you're good, you have another foot, it's fine okay I've had to be careful with it if I've only got the one more foot to use.

Alisha Coakley: 50:26

So you said that you have, um, that you kind of have like this download of just like musical inspiration and things like that, how, how do you feel like that has helped you to reconstruct your testimony, like having that access directly from heavenly father to really be inspired to, to write new music and rewrite old music?

Marlisa Wootton: 50:46

Yeah, um, I I feel like that getting to that point getting to that point happened because of my deconstruction. I was kind of at a block, almost both in my testimony but also in writing things musically. I just had hit a block and I wasn't able to get to a point where that was cleared and I could feel really spiritually connected through music until I had deconstructed. And then I so I grew up in Yukon in the middle of nowhere. There was a ditch by our house and we would flood the flood the yard, sometimes with the water from the ditch and on occasion, especially in the spring, you'd have to like pull the weeds and mud and sticks and crap out of the water off of the gate before you can pull it up and like the flood water comes, comes.

Marlisa Wootton: 51:59

I feel like my deconstruction was a bit like that, that it was like it was stopped and it wasn't until I started pulling out all of the pieces that the water was able to flow. And then I was like the heavens opened up and I was able to at that bottom point of okay, where am I? What am I doing? What do I believe? Is there a God? Do I care? If there's a God, what do I?

Marlisa Wootton: 52:18

You know, at that very, very bottom point, that that's once everything had been cleared, that's when I was able to start rebuilding, and that's where I found that connection of like, no, I do believe that I have a heavenly mother and heavenly father who love me and, um, I, yeah, and and that that I do believe that I am, you know, a daughter of theirs, daughter of God. So that was, and after that, everything else just came and it was, yeah, it was a really amazing moment, and I hope that I don't sound like I am boasting about myself. That's not my intent, um, but I think I think artists of all kinds musicians, authors, um, painters you know, actual artists, um will will understand that moment too, of like hitting that moment where you just feel in flow and everything just kind of comes. Yeah, so that was a neat moment.

Scott Brandley: 53:25

Yeah, it's awesome you had that opportunity.

Marlisa Wootton: 53:28

Thank you, it sounds like you did too With your book.

Scott Brandley: 53:33

Like you said, everybody's got their journey and ours just happened to be similar. Yeah, so, yeah, so. Is there any? As we wrap up, marlise, is there anything you'd like to share? Any final thoughts you'd like to leave as a takeaway?

Marlisa Wootton: 53:53

Like my final testimony takeaway, whatever you feel so inspired to share, yeah, okay.

Marlisa Wootton: 54:01

Final testimony takeaway is Be okay with the journey, be okay with your journey, be okay with others. Journey. Try your best to stop worrying so much about the journey. The journey is the point. It's okay to deconstruct, it's okay to reconstruct, it's okay to land wherever is safest and healthiest and best for you and wherever you feel called to go. Go, yeah, and and just I hope that people land in a place that is healthy and safe for them and that we all can find ways to be okay in our own journeys, okay Asking questions and okay when others ask questions, and that, I guess, my personal testimony is um, I'm going to be very intentional with my language here.

Marlisa Wootton: 55:02

I don't like to use the word no. There's very little that I know, um, but I believe wholeheartedly that, um, every single person, as they are, built as they as they are, is made by God, by a loving Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother who love us so much, who built us as we are because that's how we needed to be, who put us on this earth when and where we are, because that's where we were supposed to be, on this earth when and where we are, because that's where we were supposed to be, and that there are lessons for us to learn from that and lessons for us to teach others from that, and that I don't know. I just I truly believe that we're all loved by our heavenly parents. So, in the name of Jesus Christ, amen, Thank you.

Alisha Coakley: 55:55

I love that so much and I think I think the um, the easiest thing to do when you disagree is just to love. Yeah Right, like it just. It comes down to that Like we're not going to figure it all out, we're not all going to be right, we're not all going to be wrong, but we can all love each other and that's the only way that we're ever going to be able to like, have any type of continuity and and unity and all that, all that good stuff is just to share love and just, you know, pray that everyone can have exactly what they need when they need it from heavenly father, and then it can all be used to their good yeah, I think one thing you kind of taught me, and through this podcast, is I need that more empathy.

Scott Brandley: 56:44

You, I think you, going through your journey, you've learned to have a lot more empathy for people in their journey, right, and I think that's something that we could all use more of, honestly. So thanks for sharing that.

Marlisa Wootton: 57:01

Thank you. Yeah, I agree. I think that's. The biggest thing that I have learned from my deconstruction is that empathy is crucial. It's key. You have to honor where people are and yeah, yeah, love is empathy. You gotta have it.

Alisha Coakley: 57:24

Well, you, you are just like okay. Sometimes this happens on these shows, where we have guests that just leave my cheeks hurting because I'm just smiling so much. And that is you. You are just a person who makes people's cheeks hurt. It's wonderful and I love it so much. I have really enjoyed having you on as a guest today and I'm so looking forward to hearing your music. Tell everybody real quick, and we'll share links for you too, but tell us, where do we find things? Where do we find you when? How do we get in contact if people are looking for your, your resources, your talents, your music, everything else?

Marlisa Wootton: 58:06

Yeah, of course, um. So at the moment, the thing that I have, um, it's a book of all of my songs. It's um piano solos. Some of them are originals, some of them are medleys. It is also rewrites of songs, the I'll stay where you want me to stay, and some of the others.

Marlisa Wootton: 58:27

I did a rewrite in English of the Magnificat, which is a classic Christian hymn. Yeah, there's a few other things in there. I threw in one or two poems that I just couldn't figure out how to put to music, but the name of that book that I have released on Amazon, it is Praises a collection of hymns and poems. So if you want to find it, you can find it by that name. Thank you very much for putting the link out. Um, I am a big believer in lowest barrier to entry possible, so I'm going to list it for as low of a price as Amazon will let me, and you can get it in a hard copy, a soft copy or eKindle. So whatever you want. I don't really have. I do have an Instagram, but I I just truly am friends with like four people, and two of those are like my mom and dad, so if you search for me on Instagram, you're not going to really find much on there, but you can find my book just on on Amazon, so thank you.

Alisha Coakley: 59:31

Well, and I know when we spoke on the phone, my favorite thing in the whole wide world is networking. I love it. It is so fun. I love connecting people together, and so one of the things that you are always open to correct is connecting with other musicians. Oh yeah, people, to be able to sing your songs, you need people who can help write, you know, additional pieces and instruments and things like that to your music, and so anyone who wants to collaborate with you, what's the best way for them to get in contact? Should we share an email or something? Do they want them to come through us and then we can reach out and give you guys personal information?

Marlisa Wootton: 1:00:09

I've got about 10 different emails. I'm trying to decide. I will pick one. I'll let you know which email. But yeah, if people, if people want to reach out through email for a collab in music, in or art in any way, um, yeah, hit me up on email. So, and I will let you know which email. That will be All right, we'll add it.

Scott Brandley: 1:00:32

We'll add it.

Marlisa Wootton: 1:00:33

Sounds good.

Scott Brandley: 1:00:35

Well, thanks, marlisa, for being on. This has been awesome.

Marlisa Wootton: 1:00:38

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It's been wonderful. You two are great Well thank you.

Alisha Coakley: 1:00:44

We feel the same about you. I just feel so blessed. We have the best guests we really do. Scott and I are so spoiled. We just get some amazing people that we get to connect with in life.

Scott Brandley: 1:00:55

It is cool. It's a fun treat to be able to be on this side and get to meet so many cool, different people.

Marlisa Wootton: 1:01:02

Seems like a pretty cool gig. I'm kind of jealous. Maybe I should have gone into podcasting instead of audiology.

Alisha Coakley: 1:01:08

No, I'm just kidding, I love audiology.

Marlisa Wootton: 1:01:11

I couldn't. As I said it, I was like I can't, I couldn't let that go.

Alisha Coakley: 1:01:21

Especially if you're someone who likes to read the comments. Sometimes it's a little brutal. Oh yeah, no, I can't. Sometimes that happens, so if you don't want that, just don't. Just don't worry about podcasting.

Marlisa Wootton: 1:01:29

I'm sure you guys have seen um back to the future and that thing that Marty McFly's dad said. I just don't know if I could take that kind of rejection. Whatever, I'll stick to audiology. Where people have an issue with me, they can do their darndest to try and find, like the website where you review audiologists there you go.

Alisha Coakley: 1:01:56

Yeah.

Alisha Coakley: 1:01:56

Well, thank you again, marlisa, we really have enjoyed having you on here and thank you to our listeners. Guys, thanks for putting up with you. Know I'm going to say me I I talk too much. I'm sorry, but I'm so glad that you guys are here and that you're listening. And be sure that you guys do your five second missionary work. Share Marlisa's episode with others, go check out her music, leave a comment for her, let her know what you guys liked most about this episode and how your testimony was affected. So we would love to hear all of the good things and be able to help Marlisa with getting her music out to the world to spread some more light.

Scott Brandley: 1:02:36

Yeah, and if any of you have a story like Marlisa, you'd like to share it on the show, go to latterdaylightscom and we will get you on and you can share your story and your light with others, absolutely.

Alisha Coakley: 1:02:51

All right, guys. Well, that's all we have for you this Sunday. Be sure to tune in again next Sunday for another episode of Latter-day Lights.

Scott Brandley: 1:03:01

And until then we hope you guys have a wonderful week, awesome. Take care everybody.