LDS Podcast "Latter-Day Lights" - Inspirational LDS Stories

Staying on the Covenant Path Post-Divorce: Grayson McAllister's Story - Latter-Day Lights

• Scott Brandley and Alisha Coakley

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How do we stay on the covenant path when life takes an unexpected turn?

Full-time family therapy student & 3-year divorcee Grayson McAllister shares his inspiring journey of navigating life as a single father after a painful divorce. Beginning with his once sought-after ideal of the perfect family, Grayson takes us through the realities of marriage and the unexpected challenges that tested his faith, resilience, and understanding of what it truly means to walk the covenant path.

Despite facing societal judgment among members of the Church post-divorce, Grayson found solace in his relationship with God. He opens up about how his darkest moments became a catalyst for personal growth, allowing him to transform his pain into a beacon of hope for others experiencing similar trials.

Grayson’s journey is a testament to the power of faith, optimism, and the Savior’s boundless love. He offers a profound message of hope, illustrating that even when the covenant path isn’t what we expected, it’s still one worth walking.

*** Please SHARE Grayson's story and help us spread hope and light to others. ***

To WATCH this episode, visit: https://youtu.be/e680ng1iqKs

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Scott Brandley:

Hey everyone, I'm Scott Brandley.

Alisha Coakley:

And I'm Alisha Coakley. Every member of the church has a story to share, one that can instill faith, invite growth and inspire others.

Scott Brandley:

On today's episode, we're going to hear how, despite a painful divorce, one single dad has learned that, even when the covenant path isn't what you expect, it's still worth walking. Welcome to Latter-day Lights. Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of Latter-day Lights. We're so glad that you're here with us today and we have a special guest, grayson McAllister. Grayson, how are you doing today, my friend? Doing really well, how?

Grayson McAllister:

are you guys doing?

Alisha Coakley:

Doing, good Doing really good. Yeah, yeah, I feel so bare today. Not rawr bare, facially bare bare for those who aren't able to see us. Grayson has got this glorious facial hair beard thing going on. Scott has got his beard going on. I got nothing. I guess it's a good thing. Now I'm a 40 year old woman Probably a good thing.

Scott Brandley:

I don't a 40-ish year old woman. Probably a good thing.

Alisha Coakley:

I don't know if my husband would appreciate my beard.

Scott Brandley:

Oh man, I don't think that's something you need to be jealous about, Alisha.

Alisha Coakley:

Probably not. Oh man, Well, Grayson, thanks so much for reaching out to us. I know that you had heard some episodes in the past and you just kind of felt really compelled to reach out to share your story, and I'm excited to hear it because I don't. I don't think that we've had your perspective just yet, and so I do know that topic that you're talking about today just being a single dad in the church and finding your place it's, it's one that is becoming more and more prevalent. You know, like there's, it's, it's a really, really, uh, tricky place to be, right, Like just being divorced in general, but especially being a single dad too, and trying to navigate all of that. So thank you so much for coming on and and for being willing to share your story with us. I really appreciate it. Um, but before we get started with that, why don't you tell us, uh, just a little bit more about yourself, like where you're from, what you do, what you like, all those things?

Grayson McAllister:

Yeah, so I'm from a really small town in Utah called Morgan. It's a very tight-knit community, really fun place to grow up as a kid. We moved there when I was four. I have two sisters and a brother I'm the youngest and we lived there pretty much my entire life and after living there, just kind of found my way to Saratoga Springs, based on circumstances. But Saratoga is a pretty booming place. Um grown like crazy. Um a lot of condos and townhomes and um, but it's nice. It's got a good dynamic of people. There's old, there's old people, there's young people, there's kids. Um, so it's a good place to live. Um. But a little bit more about me. Um, I. So I really enjoy um, I enjoy the outdoors, I enjoy fishing, I enjoy hunting, enjoy camping. Um, I don't enjoy like, like hardcore, if that makes any sense. I'm not one to go out in the wintertime and build a nice hut of some sort or an igloo.

Alisha Coakley:

That's not camping. That's survivalist training. That's not survivalist.

Grayson McAllister:

I tried it once, and once I was like never again. This isn't a hobby of mine, um, but unfortunately I have a dad that is very much a survivalist, and so he tries to talk me into a lot of intense stuff and I'm like I don't know how you're doing this in your 60s, but I I'm not going to comply. So I'm pretty much just okay with going the safer route when it comes to the outdoors.

Grayson McAllister:

There you go. Other things about me I really enjoy sports. I really like watching football, basketball and does anything sports related. I grew up playing not well, but I grew up playing sports. That was a big part of my life. But I also like I feel like the things I like is like kind of a mixed bag. I like I dip into a lot of things. Like I enjoy going to the movies, I enjoy theater. I um, I've been an actor before, so I've done that side of it. Um, and so you know, I just I just like anything that's fun. I'm assuming everyone else does do, but I just whatever's around itching for, um, I'll do it. Um, but lately my time has just been consumed with um.

Grayson McAllister:

I'm a full-time student. Um, I I'm in a grad program, uh, liberty university. It's completely online. I am studying marriage and family therapy. Um, I just started, so I got a long ways to go. Um, there's a lot of work that goes into that program, so it's not not going to be a short and done kind of thing. It'll take a bit, but so far it's been a good journey. Um, but so far it's been a good journey. Yeah, that's me in a nutshell.

Alisha Coakley:

Awesome, and you, you've. You've got a few kids. Do you have any pets or anything too, or?

Grayson McAllister:

I'm trying to get a resume out there for you, grayson girls need to know, check, check, check no no, pet, nothing, for you know four legs, I have two girls, so I am a girl dad. It should give me some bonus points, I think. Uh, yeah, I, I currently actually live with my parents, so that's pretty much why I don't have anything else, because they kind of say what happens here.

Grayson McAllister:

There you go. But yeah, I just have my kids, I do a lot with them, I see them quite a bit and I'm pretty much. We pretty much explore any kind of playground we can find. My kids are really active. They're five and four, so, yeah, whatever a five and four-year-old like doing, I like doing. So we're just going with the flow.

Alisha Coakley:

Oh, that's cool. Yeah, I was going to say you don't get bonus points until those girls are preteens. And then God bless you. Yeah, for me I feel like my boys were like a pain in my butt pretty much up until they were preteens and then they're just kind of fun. I mean they're dangerous, but they're mostly fun. You know they take care of themselves and they're tough. But my girl I was like where did you go? You were so sweet and so cute and we used to do stuff all all the time. And now you're a teenager and you're just angry all the time and everything just makes you mad and I'm like what is going?

Scott Brandley:

on so oh wow, goodness fun things to look forward to grayson yep, scott's had both two.

Alisha Coakley:

He's had two boys, two girls. He's seen it all. All there, you go cool. All right, well, grace, and we're going to go ahead and give the floor to you. Uh, why don't you tell us where your story begins?

Grayson McAllister:

yeah. So my story begins, um, it kind of I was thinking about this a lot and I kind of wanted to go back to um, where I grew up, just because where I grew up was just a tight-knit community, just so many people, so many families, so many people happily married. I look back on a lot of people that have influenced my life and they all had really successful marriages. They all had, you know, they seemed happy and obviously I didn't know what happened behind closed doors or anything but, um, you know, being in a, being in a ward of like three to 400 people, a lot of them married. A lot of the you know a lot of elderly that have you know been there done that. A lot of the you know a lot of elderly that have you know been there done that, so to speak, with starting a family and just a very family-oriented community.

Grayson McAllister:

I think when I the reason why I bring that up is because I think a lot of the time we just have an image of what a family is and my image of it was just this wonderful community in Morgan where everyone was so loving and kind and accepting that I kind of just envisioned my life behind that kind of concept. So I really wanted to have that when I grew up and I really wanted to have the white picket fence, the, the dog in the yard, kids, wives, good job. I think a lot of people want that and it's not, you know, it's not uh, undoable, it's not possible, but I think, uh, I really was. I think I, I really was sucked into it a lot, and what I mean by that is that was my focus, probably from when I was 18 and on. I don't really know why I was so focused on, like, oh, I want kids and have family. But I think, obviously, resorting to how, how we grew up as a, how we grew up in the church, you know, that's what we were told. We were told, go on a mission, go after that, go get married, go get a job, um, and so I just, um, I kind of work a lot of my life based on checklist. I think I just you get, visualize my life as a checklist, right, and so I knew I had point A to point B to get to.

Grayson McAllister:

But I remember so I served my mission in Scotland and Ireland and the members there were not very much different than us. Honestly, like they, I mean, I dealt with a lot of families that have the same, you know, they have the same wants and beliefs. And even our new converts, you know, they wanted to find someone, they wanted to get married, and so, even on a mission like marriage was a big theme was a big theme, uh. And so when I was preaching the gospel or just sharing lessons or talking to you know, you know, as you do on your mission, um, that whole concept of being like having a family and what that's going to look like, um, definitely was really prevalent in my mind, really prevalent in my mind, and um, and so when I got home from my mission, I thankfully had a couple friends. That kind of kept me grounded at first, because I, I think I don't even know why, but like, when I got home, I was just like, well, I'm gonna go start dating.

Grayson McAllister:

This is just gonna like I'm just gonna launch like a rocket that's kind of like what I thought and uh, and because people around me I mean, it's not uncommon here in utah for 21 year olds I guess now 20 and 19 year old people to get married, and so you know, I was seeing that, I was seeing people that I went to high school with get married at a very young age, um, and it was so. It wasn't like I wasn't in in that influence, if that makes sense. I was. I was around it and so it was natural for me to want it myself and but these friends that we I ended up moving to, uh, to provo.

Grayson McAllister:

I started my schooling at utah valley university, um, but my friends were, they were good influences on me because they're like, hey, man, you don't really need like worried about this marriage stuff. We don't know what we want to do with our life yet. Like, let's just focus on that for a little bit, just have fun. And so there was a lot like there was, thankfully, a good time period where I was just like, yeah, I'm just gonna have fun, I'm gonna enjoy my life, um, and enjoy this college experience, which I really didn't take a good advantage of. It wasn't very productive, and I think it was just because number one it's really hard to figure out where you want to be when you grow up. And number two, um, that you know, being young, you don't make the best decisions.

Grayson McAllister:

And uh, it was not like I made any bad decisions, but I definitely wasn't really leading my life into a direction that I could even be perceived as, oh, this guy's got stability, he's got a job, he's got all these things that I feel like a lot of people look for in a spouse. But I never took that into consideration. But I never took that into consideration. I just remember when I was about 23, I ended up just dating like crazy. I just remember I dove into it really fast and really hard and I was going on so many dates. I remember one week I went on a date every day except Sunday for like a couple weeks, on a date every day except sunday for like a couple weeks. I'm just not like like looking back. I'm like, okay, how did you even have money for that?

Grayson McAllister:

yeah like, how are you this social like I'm? I don't really consider myself like a social butterfly, but I'm like I think I just used. What I learned from my mission was like, okay, you can get these referrals or you can just ask around or you could just, you know, talk to everyone like they suggest, and that's kind of like what I was doing. And so I just went at it really hard and, um, but nothing came of it. You know you'd think like, oh yeah, you like went on all these dates and someone's about to you know pop, but you can of it. You know you think like, oh yeah, you like went on all these dates and someone's about to you know pop, but you can. It's in my mind. I thought like, oh, this is just going to be like given to me because, like everything else that I've done, or like I shouldn't say given to me, but blessed with, you know, like I was blessed with a good mission, I was blessed with meeting good people. I was blessed with a good, stable family. I was blessed with all these really good things. I was set up to succeed. But I thought, well, having a wife, that should also be something that God should just bless me with A good person, a strong person in the gospel, all these things. I'm just like, yeah, this is, this is gonna work out just fine. There's not. I don't need to think about this too hard or I don't need to be so calculated and strategic about it like you. You might with anything else you, you know, do in your life, but, um, I definitely learned my lesson the hard way and I, but I, I was um.

Grayson McAllister:

The way I met my wives was um, actually a blind date. So I, I asked somebody, I asked somebody if they knew anyone and they did. And um, funny enough, that group of friends that I had in college, um, a lot of them served in the same mission. My best friend from morgan, he served in mesa arizona. There's a lot of like mesa arizona return missionaries, just all in one spot in this like complex, and I ended up just being friends with them because he just kind of merged me with them and uh, so I, I got to know them and I that's and one of them news newest sister and so I uh entertained the idea that we went, went on this blind date and, um, and yeah, it was like one of those aha moments where you're like, wow, this is like my person, this is, you know, we, we had similar personalities, we had, um a beautiful connection, I thought, and we, we really did get along, um, really, really well, and it was it.

Grayson McAllister:

It just stood out because all these other like dates that I went on, um, I didn't have any of those kind of like reactions or those kind of connections or nothing similar to this. So I thought, oh, maybe this is it, you know, maybe this was this, maybe this is what I am looking, looking for. And so we, um, yeah, we, the more dates we go on, the more we realize that we liked each other and then, uh, end up um dating for about eight months that year and then, sure enough, just like any other Utah story, it escalates faster and we talk about marriage later that year. And then we got engaged october and then got married, uh, that december, and so it was just like one one, almost a full year of just um falling in love, essentially, and um, so we got married and um got married in in the pigston Temple. It was really, really cold. Don't recommend getting married in December.

Grayson McAllister:

The next go-around, I don't think I'm going to vote for December wedding, but the ceremonial of everything. I do remember just being, you know, being sealed, and all those wonderful things that happened in the temple. I do remember, even to this day. I won't ever say that that was a negative experience, because when we make that kind of commitment with God, it is a really beautiful thing and you feel different and I definitely felt different, felt like, felt like everything was right and was good and I think you know that really shouldn't deter people that have been through a marriage away from the temple just because you were with someone weren't with the right person, but that was. That's more what I've learned now.

Grayson McAllister:

But to my marriage, there's just a lot of things, a lot of things that kind of led us away from God, I would say. But I learned a lot about myself too. I think I'm really trying to represent people is like when you do get married young, because I felt like 23 in the world standard pretty young You're still like in the world really wants you to like have fun in your 20s and then, like your 30s is kind of where you decide to settle down. And so I was just. I think I was still. I was just. I think I was still free spirited and I just, even though I was married, it just wasn't like I don't think I took it as seriously as I thought I. I thought I did. I think I was definitely going through the motions because other things went really quickly. I had the same year that we were married I got, we had our first child, so that was really fast. So going from newlyweds to parents, that was a really quick thing.

Grayson McAllister:

And then, literally a year later, pregnant again, have another child. So then you're you know, you're still pretty young and you have, you don't have a career, you both don't have a a career, you're both trying to figure things out, and you have two kids, and that really puts a lot of pressure on you, puts a lot of weight, there's a lot of burden, uh, to that, and it's not, it's not the kids, that's a burden, it's just really parents like myself not really taking what I should have taken seriously, seriously. And so it was about the time I had my, my second kid, that was like, well, I'm going to need to go to school, I need to figure this out, because this is not going to get any easier if I just not try to work towards something. But so, on the midst of doing all that, though, my ex-spouse was having a bit of a faith crisis, and, honestly, that happens all the time.

Grayson McAllister:

All around us, there's a lot of people that have that kind of experience, and we had a lot of conversations about it. Um, her concerns were things I've always heard, like I've heard them before, and I, I knew what, I knew, kind of my response to her concerns. But then one day, she just said I think I'm officially just going to leave and I was just completely thrown back. But I was. I was grown up in a family that my parents were taught. You know, divorce is really not the answer.

Grayson McAllister:

You need to just work. The older generations are a lot like that. My grandparents definitely were, and I'm sure your guys's family were probably had similar beliefs, um, and so I just kind of had that mindset. We're like you know what this is hard, this is not what I expected, but I'm just going to try and make this work, and so we would. We would go to church together, and it felt a little different because I knew everything that was being said at church.

Grayson McAllister:

She wasn't agreeing with um I didn't know if it like triggered her. I didn't really understand, um, and and so it was just a really confusing time to navigate. And and then, not too long after that, other events happened and then basically came up to me one day and said this marriage is over, and, and you know, that wasn't like my experience with that, wasn't like a big shock, if that makes sense. It was kind of like I just kind of thought that was where it was leading. But my personal belief was I'm not gonna end the marriage because that's not what I believe. If she wants to end it, then that's how it's gonna be and um, and so that's essentially what ended up happening. We got divorced three years ago. Funny enough, my divorce papers showed up on my birthday. So I signed divorce papers on my birthday and I was like this is either the weirdest or strangest birthday present I've ever received. Like this is either the weirdest or strangest birthday present I've ever received, um, but it was. I mean that was a very vulnerable time. I mean I was. I was very emotionally raw. I think we were only separated for about four months, um, before that happened, um, but so anyway, so that's essentially what my journey was like with divorce.

Grayson McAllister:

Now, what I want to add to that essentially is, after I got divorced, I was really kind of shocked how received I was in church. I would go to church and I kind of thought like, oh, maybe you know, maybe people really won't really think twice about it. And there there definitely aren't people that really, you know, they kind of just mind their own business and do what they, you know, live, live their lives. Um, but I was really more surprised of my own influence and my own inner circle and how they responded to me being divorced. And it leads me to my first point. I think when someone gets divorced in the church, they're not any different than anyone else, just like how we view recent converts or less actives. You know we're trying to. You know, the whole point of the kingdom, kingdom of God, is to invite everyone to come unto Christ and you do that in the most loving way that you can. But when circumstances happen to people, it's the same, you know, that's the same message towards them.

Grayson McAllister:

And so I I got some very surprising comments. You know, I I learned certain people never liked my wife and I was like I don't think I necessarily needed to hear that. Um, I also heard just other more mild things that I was expecting, and I think I think when someone gets divorced, the number one thing they don't want to hear is just a super negative comment about the situation, regardless of what it is maybe on paper or you're like they think. Oh, they're supporting me because they also don't like my ex-spouse, right, surprise, surprise. I actually don't hate my ex-spouse. There's no hate on my end. There was a lot of her feelings.

Grayson McAllister:

Sure, there was a lot of emotions I went through, but everything that I was hearing about her I just thought, okay, well, this is just kind of what people think of us as LDS people. Anyway, you know, we were super judgmental or we hate people because they're different, or whatever it's like. Well, you don't. You're not really disproving that point when you say those things, and so I just thought, huh, this is just really surprising. I'm not here to call anyone out in my inner circle, but I just know that the way we treat people should always be Christ-like, regardless of agency, and we see that in the scriptures. Could you imagine prophets like future prophets, like Alan the Younger, for example? He did a lot of horrible things right from the beginning. Imagine if you just rejected, pushed away, you know, I mean, I'm sure he was in a lot of senses when he repented and tried to bring others back to the fold. But if he was just always viewed that way, no matter what, you know, that story would be a lot different, right, yeah, yeah, and, and just, you know, any scripture, like everyone has like a redemption story in some sense. Right, we all go through, like I definitely, I mean, I'm not a perfect person either I, I definitely made certain decisions, even after my divorce, that really led me to dark paths and and that I think, yeah, those were bad but needed to happen, because now my understanding of what marriage is and what a covenant is and what you know how I should view the whole marital relationship has definitely not only changed, but I think it's more aligned with what God really made the covenant to be.

Grayson McAllister:

One of the best talks that I've ever read about marriage was actually from this past general conference. Elder Carpenter talked about it. He talked about how we need to view the covenant path in two ways. So number one is there's the, there's the uh, lateral. So there's a lateral covenant, which is everyone in mortality, essentially so when you make, when you get married to someone, your children, they're all just, they're all on the same level as you because you're all going to the same goal, right? So you make that pact with a mortal being which is your spouse, the children. You're making a covenant with your children too, because you're keeping your covenant. And then there's the. Then there's the vertical covenant, which is with God, and I think I think, sadly, that's the one covenant which is with God and I think, sadly, that's the one that gets neglected a lot Is that, even though we have a marriage, it definitely takes two to have a successful marriage, but it takes two to have a successful covenant as well, and sometimes it takes three. And that's the difference between us and the world is we need three, we need God along with our spouse, and God is the foundation to that covenant. Without him there's no covenant, there's no eternal life.

Grayson McAllister:

And I think a lot of people get married through the emotions and I feel like that was kind of my case. I mean, I definitely think I had good intentions, but looking back at all the decisions I made, I'm like, wow now. I'm like now when I go on dates, now when I meet people, there's different priorities that I put in front, in front that I wouldn't wouldn't have, like 10 years ago or um, one being like okay, I want someone. Yeah, I want someone that's committed to the church, but there's other things that I would like to. I'd like someone that is except my children also not just except my children, but except except my circumstances and have that like christ-like love for that particular circumstance. Right, like, we want people in our lives that are not judgmental. That's why we, that's why we love someone. Right, you love your, you love your spouse because they're probably hopefully not the harshest judge to you. Right, you want, you want loving people that are there to support you and let you make mistakes.

Grayson McAllister:

And I definitely didn't think like that. You know, seven, eight years ago, when I was trying to find a wife, I was just like this is all just ticking the box, I just need to do this. Now, I need to do this, now I need to do this and now I need to do this. And even though that didn't work out very well for me, I still have being divorced and being a single father has allowed me to grow a ton. I now I prioritize my children.

Grayson McAllister:

I remember just feeling so bad about myself. Um, for like the past two years, just like, why me? Why am I so unfortunate? But I have a lot. I think single parents need to know that they have a lot. You have a ton. You didn't. You did lose a spouse and that's a hard thing like no one's gonna. I don't think anyone's gonna hold that against you, that you lost that. But you have an opportunity to go a different direction in your life. Um, I heard once that rejection is not it like we don't have to name it, uh, rejection, we can name it redirection. So my rejection is more redirection.

Grayson McAllister:

So I'm very blessed to have a very good co-parenting relationship with my ex-spouse, which allows me to have a wonderful relationship with my two girls and and I'm not going to hold or I'm not looking for ways to to ruin that we have. We see a lot of ugly things in divorce where people are against each other, the butting heads and it's like this competition of who can outdo the other. And really and really I mean everyone's circumstance is different, but I know there's a lot that aren't that harsh and your mentality really needs to be. Well, what do I have and how can I make the most of it? Because I have two children that I love. I I get to see them often. I know a lot of parents that are seeing parents like don't. So I'm very fortunate that way, um, but I also have a good supporting role on with my own family. They've embraced now my kids and that's been really wonderful to see that. You know they have that, they have that stability with you, know their extended family, um.

Grayson McAllister:

But I think I think a lot of the time divorced in the church, they have that stability with you, know their extended family, um, but I think I think a lot of the time divorce in the church especially, it's just viewed in such a negative way that I think if we just twisted it to more positive and realize, you know, maybe that person's really going through it, they're, they're redirecting their lives. You know, no matter what, like you don't need to know the details of it, but we need to remember what the whole atonement is about. The atonement is about redirecting and redemption and trying again. And as dramatic as a divorce or simply just lying on a paper at school, you know, if you can, you can try again and um, I think I think when you, when you're in that haze of divorce you. You kind of forget that. I definitely did.

Grayson McAllister:

I thought you know it's so hard and you go through all this suffering that you just think you know a lot of hope is lost, but a lot of you know a lot of it's not lost. You have a lot you still have. You still have God on your side. You still have Christ, you still have the atonement. You still have the people that care about you and a lot of cases it's your children. Um, single parents have their children and there's nothing wrong with you just refocusing your life on them, because I think god I think in a lot of ways, god calls us to do that.

Grayson McAllister:

When we, when the, when we get divorced, the single parents, I think god's really just saying like this didn't work out, but you have more of my children to take care of, and that role doesn't change.

Grayson McAllister:

Don't abandon that. That's something that you need to do and, yeah, it might not look picture perfect or you know how you expect, but that's why I think you know the covenant path is worth it, because you you're, you have, you have souls that you can bless, but in reality you're, you're blessing your own soul by taking on the role that you're meant to do, like I'm always going to be a father, that no one can take that from me. And it's really helped me to see past all that suffering, see past how I view my life and yeah, I'm I, thankfully and I say this just because I'm thankfully not remarried, because there's a lot of learning to do before that happens again honestly and but there, but at the same time, there's hope. There's plenty of people that get remarried and have better marriages and they're happier and they're and I've seen that. But there's a. There's a lot of people that feel, especially in church, in the church, abandoned.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah.

Grayson McAllister:

They're not abandoned, they're we just. We just live in a society that has the natural man just naturally wants to think like well, things are out of order.

Grayson McAllister:

So you didn't make the cut. But reality is, the gospel doesn't teach that at all, and and so I think, um, I think it's important to to recognize those people in your life. Yeah, maybe relationships didn't really work out for them, but don't abandon them because their circumstances have changed, because I feel like in some cases I did lose more than just my wife. I lost other people and that was really confusing and I thought, well, why did I lose all these other people? You know I didn't do anything to them, but it's just that, I guess, judgmental part of the culture of the church that you know. I'd like to say, hey, that's a real thing, and I think we can be better as a church and as an organization to treat people in that, in those circumstances, just a little bit better.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, well, you know it's. It's interesting. I was having this thought as you're talking about um, just like the covenants that you made in the temple and everything like that, and the fact that you do have, like you know, an amicable co-parenting relationship with, with your ex, I kind of, and I don't know, I mean, I don't want to, I don't want to, like, upset anyone and I don't know if this is doctrine. I'm, I'm, I'm interested in doing some more research. That's what I'm saying. My thought was, just because a marriage ends, or even if you break your ceiling in the temple ends, or even if you break your ceiling in the temple, right, I, I almost wonder if you're still um, if, like, those covenants are still in place, right, like, okay, maybe you don't have the marriage or the ceiling, but but you still promise to love that person. It's just a different type of love. It's not that spousal love anymore, but it's still loving them, you know, like, you promise to do good for them, you promise to walk that path. You know, um, and, and we know, in the temple, you're not actually making uh, covenants to each other any longer. I believe it's, didn't they recently change that in the last few years to where it's like, like you each covenant with God, right, and then you come into each other, so, like, your covenant with God is still in place, I guess is what I'm saying. So so I think, even when you have situations that arise where it does lead to divorce and separation and things like that, it doesn't mean that you can't still keep those covenants in a different way, right, like they may not be exactly the same as what you thought that they were, but you can find a way to still love each other. You can find a way to still be side by side just maybe not in a marriage any longer right, like in your co-parenting, for example, you can both work towards being the best parents possible for those kids and the best grandparents in the in the future. And to be, um, you know the type of people that will be able to notice the pain that other people are going through. Um, and to kind of take them under your wing and to let them know hey, listen, like we're all in this together, right, Like we're, we're all doing this life thing together.

Alisha Coakley:

Same as when, um, I know for, for the first part of my marriage, the first 13 years, like my husband wasn't even a member of the church, you know. So I didn't have that temple marriage, but I kept thinking, like same thing you did. You know, like marriage has to you. Just you just do it right Like you said you're has to you. Just you just do it right Like you said you're going to do it. So you just do it, and it doesn't matter how painful it is and how hard it is.

Alisha Coakley:

And I had some really really horrible times and I, I mean divorce was literally agreed upon. We agreed to get divorced right before he joined the church and and even after he came, you know, came and did, did end up becoming a member and we went through the temple. I remember, um, we had a bunch of other stuff going on, like it didn't fix our problems just because he became a member. You know, like that marriage is really hard. You know, building relationships with anybody on any level is really hard sometimes. And so, um, I, I love that you have recognized that your covenant to heavenly father.

Alisha Coakley:

Is that that vertical covenant that needs to be focused on Right? Um, I'm almost wondering. It's almost like, like, when you go through the temple and you get married, like each of you guys have that vertical covenant with heavenly father right, and then, as you make that covenant together, you kind of build a ladder, but it doesn't mean that if that person's no longer there that you can't still use the steps right. Might be a little a little harder, you know, climbing a ladder that just has like one post in the middle and you're stepping on each side. It might be a little bit more difficult, right, it's a little easier perhaps when you have an extra side and you can have those, those rungs in between two poles. And then it's easier still when you, like you said, when you include your kids maybe then your ladder goes and it's converted to steps right. So you, you have more lumber that you're adding to the situation. So now you can build these steps and I think that's that's the same with your parents and with your siblings, with your church family right, with the, the associates that you have in your life, the friends you have in your life, like you're.

Alisha Coakley:

We're just adding more and more lumber to that vertical climb to get to our heavenly father, and so I think it's it's just really neat that you're able to kind of step back and see that, like, you can still get there and you don't have to have it look a certain way in order to get there. You know the, the tools that you're using. Yeah, they might be a little raw, they might not be as as substantial as what you originally thought, but but they can still get you to where you want to be in the end, and it's it's showing your kids, I think, too, um, just so many different Christlike attributes, you know. It's showing them how to endure it. Showing them how to be creative. It's showing them how to endure it. Showing them how to be creative. It's showing them how to, um, how to work with people that you don't agree with, necessarily right, how to forgive. I think that's the hardest part.

Alisha Coakley:

I know one of one of my friends that I was talking to who's divorced, um, she mentioned that there is a very real grief that happens in divorce, and anyone who's lost anyone before knows that grief is very different for each person.

Alisha Coakley:

You know like sometimes you grieve someone and all you do is you long for them and you love them and you want nothing but good things to be said about them, and then, and then sometimes the reverse happens you lose someone and you're just like. It hurts so much that the only way to stop the hurt is to be angry, and I think we see a lot of that in in divorces in the world now is spouses who get divorced and then they're just angry with each other all the time. They forget how much they loved each other. They forget that they have this history and that there was good Otherwise they wouldn't have gotten married Like there was a reason why you guys were together in the first place. And that doesn't just disappear completely because other things came into view too, right, so sorry, that was my tangent. I don't even know where my tangent went, but Well, I think along what you're saying, Alisha.

Scott Brandley:

I do think, if think, if somebody does get divorced, you still have the choice to keep your side of the covenants. I mean, live a Christlike life, you know, do right by your ex. You know, like, take the higher road, be a good example for your kids, right, because if you are true and faithful you'll still God will provide a way for you to make it to the celestial kingdom, right? So I do think that there's something there. I have a question for you, grayson.

Scott Brandley:

Um, my wife and I have had several conversations where we've said, like, if you leave the church, like we're getting divorced. This might be controversial too, right, but like, because we believe so much in the promises from the temple, right, that eternal marriage. Right, that eternal marriage. Like, if you, if, if you don't believe that, like I'm not going to stick around. Um, you chose to do that and I'm just curious. I've never been in the situation, right, so it's easier to say it than do it. So I'm wondering like, what? What are some of the thoughts or feelings that went through your head? Um, as to that idea?

Grayson McAllister:

Yeah, well, funny enough, like when I. So when I, when my spouse left the church, I I remember posting about it and just saying like, oh, yeah, you can make these things work. And then I found several people connecting with me saying like, oh, my spouse left the church too and we're still married, um, and that was an interesting kind of rabbit hole that I didn't know. Was there that? Oh, wow, like people leave the church and stay married, um, and I was taught, I talked, was talking to this girl that I knew on my mission she, her husband, left and, um, she was. She said that she thought her whole world was coming apart, that everything about that was, you know, detrimental to her family. But they're still married to this day. It's been a couple of years and really it's just now.

Grayson McAllister:

There's just love and respect because mom and dad, I guess, are different than each other or have different core beliefs, and I and I get what you're saying is, yeah, like, if you ever like. It's pretty natural to say like, yeah, if you ever left the church, then I'm just going to bail. But I think you realize like, okay, yeah, that's going to be a hard thing to maybe navigate in the next life and thankfully there's someone there to make decisions on that. Thankfully, we don't have to think that too hard in mortality, but I think if there's still love and strength in that, then why not, right? I mean, I knew so many part part member families in my, in my mission, and their marriages were just there, weren't any different. They just, yeah, one spouse doesn't come to church, one spouse doesn't participate in ordinances, et cetera, but their marriage and their family was still happy, like kids still talk, their kids still talking to their parents and having a loving relationship. So I think it's more of a question of is this worth losing? Even though there's plenty of it, that's still good. I mean, again, this doesn't happen to everybody, but it's happening more and more where people are having testimony testing dilemma in their life.

Grayson McAllister:

You're like do I want to do this church thing anymore? Like, is this really? Is it going to be my life? And? Um, so like, I think we all go through it, but in a marriage it complicates things. But I think you have to weigh the pros and cons, so to speak, as to like, okay, but we built a great family together. We're like yeah, well, how much does this really? Like? You have to ask yourself, like how much does this really change my view of that person and I?

Grayson McAllister:

I think people will find like no, I actually love this person a lot and maybe the whole I'll stay with you, stay by you, no matter what, really means that I think. I think a lot of people would commit more to staying because you have this deep connection with that person and that would be hard to lose, because a lot of people I don't want to get divorced when you, you know, you might even say it casually, like oh, yeah, like if you left or if you did this X, y and Z, we'll get divorced. But then the reality of the divorce happens and you realize, hmm, maybe I shouldn't have gone this route because they made our marriage great, aside from the church. Now, the church, yeah, like the ordinances we make in the covenant. If you believe in them, they're strong and it's hard to logically think it through your head Like, oh, if one person's out and I'm in, how does this work?

Grayson McAllister:

But I've seen, I've just seen a lot of people make it work and realize like, okay, like it's really not impossible and it, like it's really not impossible and it, who's to say that? You know they're not given another opportunity in the next life. I just think that the worst thing for children to experience is obviously a divorce. Sometimes it's necessary, sometimes absolutely warranted. It has to happen for the better of everyone. But I think if you, if your marriage is so strong and you guys aren't like super toxic people that are causing, you know, critical harm to people around you and you still have at least the core values of being a loving human being, you know, I think that why not make it work? Because your children will see it and I think that will have a better, more positive impact for them. But again, that's very circumstantial, but I definitely have had that conversation them myself and it's like, yeah, I can casually say like, oh, yeah, if you do this and this and that we're getting divorced. But divorce is not easy.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah Well, and to be fair, living in an unhappy marriage is not easy. You're just picking your heart. You know what I mean. Like that's what it comes down to when you, when you have in whatever you have going on in marriage, you're going to have to choose which hard you want to live with. Do you want to live with all of the things that come with being divorced or do you want to live with all of the things that coming come with being in an unhappy marriage? And it doesn't mean that you're going to be unhappy forever.

Alisha Coakley:

You know, case in point 13 years it took my husband to come to the church. We were really rough, really bad off. A lot of terrible stuff happened in our marriage. Um, scott heard every little detail, you know, like he was our Bishop at the time, scott was privy to all the information and it was. It was one of those like we don't even know. So the fact that that you know we're still married, we're in the temple, like we got sealed in the temple to our kids, that my husband, you know, like he's in the in the elders quorum presidency right now.

Alisha Coakley:

Like people can change, situations can change, so you don't have to assume that how it is now will always be that way, whether that makes you stay or makes you leave. That you know. I think that's just something, that it just is right, like you got married in the temple thinking everything was going to be great and then, and then people change. Right, your spouse changed, you changed. I got married to someone who is not a member and people changed in, my spouse changed, and so you really are just picking your card and what I've realized is two things.

Alisha Coakley:

One, most of the torture that we put ourselves through is because we have chosen to give meaning to a situation that just is. For example, we say oh, they left the church. It obviously means that we can't have a good marriage anymore. Why? Who says that? Why? Where is that written? Where did God say in the scriptures that if you're not married in the temple and if both people aren't believing that you're going to live a miserable life, it's not in there. You won't find it right. That's just what you've told yourself. That's just the thing that you have chosen to believe. It doesn't mean that it's true. It just means it's what you believe. Same thing with, like if my kids don't do their chores, it means that they're lazy. It actually doesn't mean they're lazy. Yeah, I know this is crazy. It doesn't mean that being lazy just because they don't do their chores. I may view it as lazy, but that's not necessarily true. It just means that they're not doing their chores. That's all it means. It literally just means that they're not doing their chores.

Alisha Coakley:

So I think that, one, right, we're responsible for what type of meaning we attach to a situation or a decision or you know whatever words are coming through a relationship. And two, when we decide that we get to put that meaning on things, it gives us back the power, which means we then can choose our own happiness. We can choose to be in any relationship or no relationship, and we can be incredibly happy either way. Right, we can have respect, we can have love for a person, we can feel Christ in that relationship with us, no matter where we're at. It doesn't have to be all of these things on my checklist. Make a happy marriage, and all of these things that are not on my checklist mean that I have to get divorced or I have to have a miserable marriage or a miserable divorce. So you know miserable marriage or a miserable divorce? So you know, I don't know, I just think that it's.

Alisha Coakley:

It is really really hard sometimes to um to say what we would and wouldn't do until we're in this situation, and it's also really hard when we're in this situation to say what we can and can't handle and what can and can't happen, you know, but when we have the Lord by our side, I feel like that gives us something to focus on right.

Alisha Coakley:

When we can't figure out everything else, we can figure out how to focus on the Lord and we can figure out how can I build my relationship with him, because he is never going to lead me in the wrong path, like everything that happens in my life. When he's by my side, it's going to be for my good. Everything can be. I love what you said. It doesn't have to be a rejection, it can be a redirection. You know that's the power of, of having that relationship with the savior. And so when all else fails and ideally before everything fails right, just work on that, that relationship with Christ, work on that covenant that you've made with our heavenly father, and and just trust that he'll lead your paths.

Grayson McAllister:

Yeah.

Alisha Coakley:

And.

Grayson McAllister:

I. I definitely like one thing that I and it was told a lot when I I guess I wouldn't say thriving, but just doing better People would ask me like, well, how do you do it? How do you go to school, how do you go to work? And juggle this Like very complicated life you have. Now the simple answer is you just do it.

Grayson McAllister:

I mean, it's not really like yeah, like I definitely feel empowered and I feel like God is with me, but you know what other choices there? It's like you know, the worst thing that could, that I could do, is just abandon my children. The worst thing I could do is give up. The worst thing I could do is quit and, um, god doesn't want us to quit, and not even talking about divorce, but just life in general. He doesn't want you to quit, he wants to keep going, keep trying. I mean, you can go through other things. Um, that haven't even you know. I don't even understand the care inside them, but I've seen people go through just unlucky stuff and they just keep going. And that's really just.

Grayson McAllister:

The reality of trials is you can either give up, flop over like a fish and say, yeah, I'm just gonna give up, or you can just keep going. Um, because single, single parents need to realize that you know you've got, you've got children relying on you and you can't quit on them, because that will make even a worse impact than just a divorce If your parent I've heard people say like, yeah, my, my mom and dad just left and I've never seen him again. That's how it worked back then the whole divorce in general. So it's like, yeah, I'm not gonna quit, because there is no quit, there's no option for that. Um, and so, yeah, you, just you make it work and but again, it's like everything that you you do is hopefully redirecting you for something better. Um, but what I've found is, you know, taking that high road, not quitting on my circuit, like, not quitting on what's ahead of me, um, there's been a lot of benefits and I think that's probably the most consistent thing that I've seen. That's like I would just, you know, tomorrow be like, nah, well, I gave, I gave school a shot bye, or nah, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna go jobless and make my parents provide.

Grayson McAllister:

It's like, no, there's a lot of things that, even just as a person, you just have to do your best and yeah, it's hard, but time definitely does heal a lot of things and the consistency of your new life. You know, time definitely makes it lighter and and God makes it lighter and and then you meet new people and then you reconnect, you connect with people that you didn't think you'd connect with and, um, I think you can go through, I think we all go through that in any phase of life, but, um, but that's like that's been my experience and I, uh, you know it's, it's not. It's hard, definitely in the moment. It's hard for a time that you go through a season of grief, but then that season of grief does end and when it does end, you feel like a new person and you're able to, you're empowered and you feel like you can take on anything else and I think if people can just get to that point, they'll be glad they did.

Alisha Coakley:

So can I ask you you know, just before we wrap up, because I know we're kind of coming to the end here but what has been helpful or like as far as like, friends, relationships, things like that, like I know you experienced some negative things but what has been helpful in moving through your divorce and being a single dad? You know what are the things that people have said or done or what programs have you been able to be a part of that have kind of helped buoy you up?

Grayson McAllister:

Number one thing that really helped me was therapy. 100% Therapy was probably the best decision I made, because a lot of the negative things that I felt, I got that out there. You know, whatever I was going through, I verbally told a person you can't necessarily do that with your family and friends. Whatever I was going through, I verbally told a person you can't necessarily do that with your family and friends. They don't really know what to do with those kind of concerns. And so I think the best step that you can make is go to therapy, because therapists know what to do. Therapists know what to say to you to help you reconfigure your choices or your reality or whatever you're feeling in the moment. And so I definitely recommend therapy, but I also recommend just being active in the church as much as you can. It might like I definitely.

Grayson McAllister:

At first it was really hard going to a family war and seeing all these families and kids and parents, but after a time you just realize, like you know, this is my relationship and my journey with God is between me and them and I'm just going to go on that journey. You know, single or until something else changes. You know single or until something else changes. Um, so not, there's, unfortunately there's not really like a lot of like programs, cause I definitely look like, trying to look into, like, yeah, I've looked into like Facebook groups and stuff and those can be really negative.

Grayson McAllister:

Um, a lot of people just hating on each other. Essentially, social media is not the best source for comfort, um, when it comes to divorce, just cause everyone views it. But I would say, you know, therapy can help you with that redirection that you're searching for and, um, and yeah, just staying true to true, staying true to what you know to be true. I mean, I definitely had a very negative outlook on temple marriage when I was going through it and I just thought, yeah, I have a bad relationship with it, we'll see how it goes down the road. And I'm glad I did, because eventually, you know, with anything in life, hopefully you make a full circle back, and that's just kind of what helped me, gotcha.

Alisha Coakley:

Yeah, all righty. Well, mr Grayson, thank you so much for coming on today and for, you know, sharing your story with us and sharing your thoughts and your perspectives and stuff like that. I just want to say to all those out there listening I really want to encourage everyone to not give up hope. Whatever your decision was, whatever the other person's decision was. Maybe there's not another person, maybe you're single and you're waiting to get married and you're like I wish I had marital problems, right, and like whatever it is.

Alisha Coakley:

I just want you guys to remember that there really is hope in Christ and that he is such an amazing author as storyteller, story writer Like you have no idea what's what's around the bend, you have no idea what's going to be coming in your life. Just keep, just keep your relationship with your heavenly father close, make sure that you learn about the savior, learn how that relationship looks for each of them and and you know we were talking in Sunday school a few weeks ago about just like your relationship with Christ does not, and maybe even should not, be the same relationship as what you have with your heavenly father. You have a brother and you have a father, and those are going to be two different relationships and each one deserve attention, you know. And so just make sure that you guys are focusing on those relationships, on figuring out what they are, how to build them stronger, and trust that everything will work together for your good in the end, that there's no um, there is nothing too far gone or too impossible that your heavenly father can't work out for you. So I just want to leave that with all the sitters and and for you, grayson, too, I, you know, I think that you have, um, a lot of happiness ahead of you.

Alisha Coakley:

I think you have a lot of really cool experiences. I'm a girl and I'm my dad loves me to death. You know you got two girls of your own. You're going to have so many fun memories coming up in this, in you know, the next 10, 15 years with your girls being with you and under your roof and things like that, and, and I think that you'll have, you'll have, you have a lot to give. So hopefully, your next go round I'm just going to be super positive It'll happen. It'll happen at the right time, the right place, with the right person, and you'll you know you'll be able to grow and become even better and stronger and happier and you know all of the good things. So I really hope that for you guys. I really hope.

Scott Brandley:

Yeah, so, grayson, do you have any last thoughts before we wrap?

Grayson McAllister:

up. Yeah, just to just to echo what you were saying is this yeah, there's always a light at the end of the tunnel. There's nothing too doomy and gloomy about a marital change. It definitely is hard, but it's bearable and you can work through it. If I can work through it, you can work through it. There's a lot of people that work through it and thrive. And you know, I think it's just part of life and we just have to accept it and just move forward. Awesome.

Scott Brandley:

Well, thanks for being on the show man. We really appreciate it and appreciate your thoughts and your insight, appreciate your thoughts and your insight and we appreciate everyone that tuned in today for coming and listening to Grayson's story and and hearing some of his light and his experiences. And we ask that if you feel that this can can help someone in your life, hit that share button and let's do some five second missionary work and get Grayson's story out there.

Alisha Coakley:

And to all of our listeners who are sitting there and who are feeling the little prickles you know from the Holy ghost, or maybe it's a two by four to the face, I don't know. Whatever you're feeling, if you guys have a story to share, scott and I, we would love to hear from you. We'd love to hear you know what your story is, what your message is, how you can share light to the world. So be sure to um to either email us at latterdaylightsatgmailcom or head over to latterdaylightscom and you can fill a form out at the bottom of the page there just applying to be on the show. We'll set up a phone call, chit chat with you for a little bit um, you know more about your story and stuff like that, and then we'll schedule a time for you to be on. So we would love to hear from you guys.

Alisha Coakley:

Thank you so much for being our listeners and for sharing these stories, grace, and thank you for coming on and for being a guest. We really, really do appreciate it and it just I don't know, it makes my heart happy hearing more about, about everyone. You know what I mean. I just I I feel like there's so much connection being built when we, when we tell our stories and when we listen to others tell their stories too. So thank you for being that person. Yeah, yeah, all right, guys. Well, that's all that we have for today. Make sure that you guys turn in for another episode of lottery lights next week and until then, we episode of lottery lights next week and until then, we hope that you have a wonderful, light-filled week.

Scott Brandley:

Talk to you later, yeah.

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Scott Brandley

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Alisha Coakley

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